KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: tariff turbulence.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
This is liberation day.
KRISTEN WELKER:
President Trump ramps up his trade fight, expanding steeper tariffs on almost all of America’s trading partners.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
Our country and its taxpayers have been ripped off for more than 50 years, but it is not going to happen anymore.
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
This is not liberation day. It’s recession day.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Will the tariffs trigger a global recession?
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
The markets are going to boom, the stock is going to boom, the country is going to boom.
KRISTEN WELKER:
My guests this morning: Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, Republican SEN. JAMES LANKFORD of Oklahoma and Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California. Plus: X factor.
ELON MUSK:
I feel like this is one of those things that - that may not seem like that it’s gonna affect the entire destiny of humanity, but I think it will.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Elon Musk’s candidate loses in a Wisconsin Supreme Court race he spent millions on.
JUDGE SUSAN CRAWFORD:
I never could have imagined that I'd be taking on the richest man in the world, and we won!
KRISTEN WELKER:
Has Musk become more of a liability than an asset? And: political endurance.
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
I confess that the Democratic party has made terrible mistakes that have gaven lane to this demagogue.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator Cory Booker breaks the record for the longest Senate floor speech.
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
Where does the constitution live? On paper? Or in our hearts?
KRISTEN WELKER:
What will Democrats learn from his 25-hour protest? Joining me for insight and analysis are:
NBC News Senior White House Correspondent Garrett Haake; Leigh Ann Caldwell, chief Washington correspondent for Puck; Neera Tanden, president for the Center for American Progress; and Lanhee Chen, a fellow at the Hoover Institution. Welcome to Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. The global fallout is intensifying after President Trump imposed the highest tariff levels against nearly every country in a century. Many economists are now warning President Trump’s tariff plan could push the nation closer to a recession, while he insists it will bring the country to a new “golden age.”
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
It’s our declaration of economic independence. For years, hard working American citizens were forced to sit on the sidelines as other nations got rich and powerful, much of it at our expense. But now, it’s our turn to prosper.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
The risks and uncertainty of this new trade war are causing serious jitters from Wall Street to Main Street where American businesses and consumers are likely to bear the burden of higher costs. Stocks nose dived in the biggest losses since the Covid pandemic, wiping out a record $6 trillion in value in just two days. World leaders responding, suggesting the Trump tariffs will fundamentally change the global economic order.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRIME MINISTER MARK CARNEY:
The 80-year period when the United States embraced the mantle of global economic leadership, when it forged alliances rooted in trust and mutual respect, and championed the free and open exchange of goods and services, is over.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
The White House’s message is to be patient and don't focus on the short-term impact.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
The markets are going to boom, the stock is going to boom, the country is going to boom.
REPORTER:
How long will it take to get manufacturing - American manufacturing to where you would like to see it?
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
Well, let’s say it’s a two-year process.
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
What I’d ask folks to appreciate here, is that we’re not going to fix things overnight.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
On Saturday, protestors took to the streets in cities across the country speaking out against the Trump administration’s moves to fire federal workers, immigration crackdowns and new tariff policies. The White House has insisted the tariffs are not a negotiating tactic, but President Trump contradicted that message saying there is room for negotiation.
[BEGIN TAPE]
KAROLINE LEAVITT:
The president made it clear, this is not a negotiation.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
The tariffs give us great power to negotiate.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Just hours later, President Trump insisted, quote, “my policies will never change.” Meanwhile, former Vice President Mike Pence is calling Trump's tariffs “the largest peacetime tax hike in U.S. history” and warns they could cost American families “over $3,500 per year.” And on Capitol Hill, there’s growing concerns even among some Republicans about the president’s actions.
[BEGIN TAPE]
SEN. CYNTHIA LUMMIS:
Well, there could be short term pain.
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS:
It’s going to be consumers that bear the cost.
SEN. RAND PAUL:
Tariffs are a terrible mistake. They don’t work, they will lead to higher prices.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Remember what Mama Gump said? Stupid is as stupid does. Let’s not be stupid. Let’s don’t have a trade war.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And joining me now is Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent. Secretary Bessent, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Kristen, good to see you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It's great to have you back after a very big week. Let's start with the market reaction to President Trump's announcement of his tariffs. As I just laid out at the top of the program, the markets lost more than $6 trillion in value. Was this disruption always part of the plan, Mr. Secretary?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Look, the – Kristen, markets are organic. They’re animals. I mean, you never know what the reaction is going to be. One thing that I can tell you, as the Treasury secretary, what I've been very impressed with is the market infrastructure, that we had record volume on Friday and everything is working very smoothly. So, the American people – they can be very – take great comfort in that. And in terms of the market reaction, look, we get these short-term market reactions from time to time. The market consistently, the - underestimates Donald Trump. I remember that in 2016 the night President Trump won, the market crashed. The market crashed, and it turned out he was going to be the most pro-business president – the – in over a century, maybe in the history of the country, and we went on to very high after inflation returns for the next four years.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, but this was the biggest two-day crash since the pandemic. And the president on Saturday urging people, quote, "to hang tough," saying, "It won't be easy." And I guess the big question on people's minds, Mr. Secretary, how difficult is it going to be? And how long are Americans going to have to "hang tough?"
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Well, again, I - I reject that - the assumption – there doesn't have to be a recession, the - who knows how the market is going to react in a day, in a week. What we are looking at is building the long-term economic fundamentals for prosperity that I think the previous administration had put us on the course toward financial calamity.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But just in terms of the uncertainty, I think, that people are feeling and seeing, and President Trump saying he wants people to hang tough acknowledging there's going to be what he has described as a short period of pain. Can you help provide some clarity for folks? How long will this period of uncertainty be here? Are we talking about weeks? Are we talking about months? Are we talking about years?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Again. This is an adjustment process. What we saw with President Reagan, when he brought down the - the great inflation and we got past the Carter malaise that there - there was some choppiness at - at that time, but he held the course, and, you know, we're going to hold the course. And this has been years in the building, years in the making, you know, this unsustainable system - our trading partners have taken advantage of us. We can see that through the large surpluses. We can see this through the large budget deficits. And also, Kristen, this is a national security problem, which we saw during Covid. We saw during Covid that optimal supply chains are not resilient. And what I could say is the only good outcome from Covid is it was a beta test for what would happen if our supply chains got broken, and President Trump has given - has decided that we cannot be at risk like that, for our crucial medicines, for semiconductors — the -- for shipping, and we are going to move forward so the American people can know that they are going to have a more secure future.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And yet, President Trump promised that he was going to improve the economy starting on day one. He said prices are going to come down. More than 160 million Americans, Mr. Secretary, as you know, are invested in the market. Many of them have spent their lives saving for their retirement. What is your message to Americans who want to retire right now and who've just seen their lifetime savings drop significantly?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Kristen, I think that's a false narrative. Americans who want to retire right now, Americans who have put away for years in their savings accounts, I - I think they don't look at the day-to-day fluctuations of what's happening. And you know, in fact, most Americans don't have everything in the market. Most Americans in a 401K have what's called a 60/40 account. 60/40 accounts are down 5 or 6% on the year. People have a long-term view. They have a program that the reason the stock market is considered a good investment is because it's a long-term investment. If you look day-to-day, week-to-week, it's very risky. Over the long term, it's a good investment.
KRISTEN WELKER:
President Trump's tariffs are being described as the biggest tax hike on Americans in decades. They could cost the average household thousands of dollars. Republican Senator Ted Cruz had this to say. I'm going to play it, get your reaction on the other side.
[START TAPE]
SEN. TED CRUZ:
Tariffs are attacks on consumers. And I'm not a fan of jacking up taxes on American consumers.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you acknowledge that President Trump's tariffs will cause prices to go up on a range of goods?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Well, Kristen, what I like is data. And if we look at the data from President Trump's first term, and there's a big study that just came out from a group of economists, mostly at MIT, that showed that a 20% - 20% tariff on China led to a .7% tax or price level increase over four years. I think that's pretty good if we can take in 20% in tariffs and it's a .7% increase. And Kristen, the - the little publicized story this week, everyone wants to look at the stock market going down. You know what else went down? Oil prices went down almost 15% in two days which impacts working Americans much more than the stock market does. Interest rates hit their low for the year. So I'm expecting the mortgage applications to pick up.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, just to be very clear though, I mean, during President Trump's first term, the cost to Americans was nearly $80 billion in new taxes due to his tariffs. Prices did go up on everything from washing machines to tires.
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Well, no, no, no. But let's go back. The aggregate number was. 7. So we can discern the individual things. Also households saw real net wages go up. So if wages go up faster than prices, which is not what happened over the past four years, that's why the bottom 50% got eviscerated.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let - let me ask you about your view. Because last January you wrote that, quote, "Tariffs are inflationary." The Fed chair said the same thing on Friday that tariffs announced this week caused higher inflation. Have you expressed any concerns to President Trump directly that his tariff policy could be inflationary?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
No. What - what I've said is, "Tariffs are a one-time price adjustment." So there- there's a big difference between insipid, endemic inflation within the system and consistent price level increases and a one-time adjustment. But the other thing that we're doing is we are raising wages for working Americans. We're bringing down regulation. So, you know, there are estimates that regulations have caused the average household about $8,000. That when we get this tax bill through, then we will make the tax levels permanent. And - and again, the drop in the energy prices, the drop in interest costs, now, I - I think real after-tax wages are going to go up for Americans. And that's what's important.
KRISTEN WELKER:
One of the big questions and points of confusion I think is are these tariffs permanent? Or are they a negotiating tactic? Some administration officials have said they're permanent. President Trump himself has said he's open to negotiating. So let me just ask you. Is President Trump willing to negotiate? Or are these tariffs permanent?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Well, I think that's gonna be a decision for President Trump, but I can tell you that, as only he can do at this moment, he's created maximum leverage for himself, and more than 50 countries have approached – they have approached the administration about lowering their non-territory barriers, lowering their tariffs, stopping currency manipulation, and Kristen, you know, they've been bad actors for a long time, and it's - it’s not the kind of thing you can negotiate away in days or weeks.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You yourself have said that he's using these for negotiating. He has told me directly he's open to negotiating. So just very clearly for the American people: Can you say definitively, is he planning to negotiate? Has he already started negotiations with countries?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Well, I - I - I think we're going to have to see what the - what the countries offer, and whether it's believable, because again –
KRISTEN WELKER:
So, he’s open to it, is what I hear you say.
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
The - no, no, no, it is - I think that we are going to have to see the path forward, because after 20, 30, 40, 50, years of bad behavior, you can't just wipe the slate clean.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Let me ask you about one of the big questions. Recession, as you know, analysts say the chances of a recession are rising in the wake of the tariffs announced this week. Do you believe that President Trump's tariffs are risking the chances of a recession?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
I - I don't. And I think we could see from the jobs number on Friday that it was well above expectations that, you know, we are moving forward. So I - I see no reason that we have to price in a recession.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. Before I let you go, I know you've been one of the officials spearheading the efforts to get President Trump's budget bill passed on Capitol Hill. It includes the president's plans for tax cuts, extending the 2017 tax cuts, for example. Are you confident that the president's budget bill will pass before the August recess?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
We are shooting for even a much earlier date. And Kristen, I - I can tell you the under-reported story in D.C. is, you know, it's fun from our side of the aisle to watch the Democratic chaos. But the under-reported story is the Republican unity. And Speaker Johnson has done an incredible job with a small minority. He got reconciliation instructions out on the first try. He got a clean continuing resolution. Speaker Thune, the - the Senate issued the reconciliation instructions. So things are moving very quickly.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Very quickly, President Trump called on the Fed chair to lower interest rates. Do you think that Fed chair Jerome Powell should lower interest rates?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
I - I - I think that when we see inflation dropping, that the Fed will do what it always does and lower rates. But in the meantime, what we can control is the longer-term rate, the ten-year rate which hit - hit a new low on Friday. That's where mortgages are priced. That's where long-term capital formation is priced. And, you know, back to the tax deal, when we can pass that, we will have economic certainty.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay, we'll be watching for that timeline you just laid out very closely. Secretary Scott Bessent, thank you so much for being here. We appreciate it.
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. And when we come back, Republican Senator James Lankford of Oklahoma joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back, and joining me now is Senator James Lankford of Oklahoma, who is out with a new book, “Turnaround: America's Revival.” Senator Lankford, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
Thank you. Good to be back again.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It's great to have you. Congratulations on your new book. We are –
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
Thanks –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– going to talk about it in just a moment. I have to start by talking to you about tariffs.
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And I want to start with where I left off with Secretary Bessent. The questions about a recession. The concerns by economists that the chances could be increasing for a recession. He said there's no reason to anticipate a recession. Do you agree with him? How do you see it?
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
Well, I'm not an economist on it, but I would say I don't anticipate a recession either. And some of it's history and some of it's current. We're watching already the jobs numbers tick up. We're seeing inflation continue to be able to stay down. That's helpful. Getting on top of prices, things like gasoline. Things that people use every day, that price continues to stay down. That helps the entire economy. But I can also look at the Trump version one and Biden, actually, and see where did we have the greatest challenge on inflation, where did we have the greatest challenge of the economy. We've literally seen two different economic plans side by side now, and so there's a lot more trust for President Trump now saying, "Yeah, there's a challenge in the market. He's pushing the area about trade, wants to bring more manufacturing back to the United States." That's causing this rumble that's happening right now on Wall Street. But we also see where things are going because we've seen this movie before and saw how successful it was.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, and as you know, there are concerns about what it means on the world stage –
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
Sure.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– for the United States. Here's what The Wall Street Journal editorial board had to say, writing quote, "Mr. Trump's new tariff onslaught is giving China another opening to use its large market to court American allies." Senator, do you believe that these tariffs run the risk of emboldening China?
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
Everything will embolden China. They're very confident in many ways except in their economy. When you look at the inside working of their economy, they're very, very dependent on exports. If they don't have large quantities of export, their economy doesn't work at all. So this is a direct challenge to them to say, "We're going to try to push more manufacturing in the United States to bring jobs here." So I think that's why China has reacted so fast. I've already seen the administration reach out to countries like Vietnam, Bangladesh, other nations and say, "Let's open up dialogue to be able to talk." The president's even made a statement about that he's talking to Vietnam, wants to get the tariffs down significantly, back to where they were with Vietnam. That's a huge challenge to China, then, at that point. But right now China is trying to be able to send products to Vietnam so they'd send them from here to avoid the tariffs. We do have to fix that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, and you have expressed tariffs – concerns about tariffs, actually, in the past. I want to play a little bit of what you said back in 2019, get your reaction on the other side.
[BEGIN TAPE]
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
The American workers and the American companies pay the brunt of all those. So far, Americans have paid $12 billion in tariffs. It's not punishing the Chinese. It's punishing us.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, how long are you willing to give President Trump to see if these tariffs, in fact, are working and making the economy better?
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
So it's reshifting the economy back to getting more manufacturing back to the United States – that's good for us long-term. There's no question, short-term, tariffs do cause an increase in price. As Secretary Bessent just said, it's a one-time increase that happens. I want to get that down. And when we see some of the rates in some of the other countries that are very, very high, we've got to be able to work those down because our economy's very intertwined globally on this, and want to make sure it's all fair and it works. And one of the clearest examples is, Israel has a 17% rate, Lebanon, Turkey, Yemen, Saudi Arabia have a 10% rate. We've got to be able to figure out why that's so, and be able to bring it down.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You know, even some of your Senate colleagues have expressed concern and say, "Look, if it goes past 90 days that's going to be a problem," Senator Ted Cruz, for example. Is that the timeframe that you're looking at, 90 days?
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
I actually don't have a calendar date on it. I think there’s, more than anything else, this needs to be a short-term issue while the negotiations are actually happening. I think once the president starts announcing some negotiations in some different countries, we'll start to see the market calm and we'll start to see the rates come down pretty quickly.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senators Grassley and Cantwell, as you know, have proposed a bipartisan bill. It would basically allow Congress to play a larger role in tariff policy. Senator, will you support this legislation?
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
So I've not gone through that one completely. Let me tell you why on this. Congress already has a role in most tariffs. Many tariffs come in for a couple of months, the president can impose it, then it has to be able to come to Congress. The president's using a different authority this time that doesn't have that same trigger that comes to Congress And I think what Chuck Grassley is saying is, "Hey, Congress has a role, quite frankly constitutionally, Congress has a key role in any kind of tax policy, tariffs, any kind of revenue issues." So it is right for the legislative branch to engage and say, "Hey, we have a role in all revenue issues and always have for that long term." So, we're going to have the courts step in on this. Congress will step in on this. But obviously the president's also trying to fix a major issue that's been in the country for a very long time and that's manufacturing leaving the country.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. I do want to talk about your book. It's called “Turnaround: America's Revival.” One of the things that strikes me in reading this is your optimism, senator. You have this rallying cry, basically, for people to get engaged, for people to get involved. You talk about the fact that right now America is “drifting” instead of “intentionally sailing.” What do you say to those people who have just given up on American politics?
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
Yeah, reengage locally. America's not about our politics. It's about our people. It's about each other. It's about our families. And the book itself is a focus on faith and politics. And some people say, "You can't do both." And I was like, “That's not true.” Our faith drives everything that we do. Our faith drives how we affect our families, affect our neighbors. But we sometimes disengage our faith from our politics, and we suddenly say, "Well, I'm going to live my faith consistently with my family, but with my politics I'm going to scream and yell and be angry." And I think, "Okay, let's engage both of those and out of the core values of who we are to be able to live those principles." We are a nation, ultimately, that is about what's happening locally. And what happens locally affects the nation. As I say in the book, Washington doesn't change the country, the country changes Washington. And so what changes the country? It's us.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, you also write about the fact that you were one of the people spearheading this effort to get this bipartisan border bill –
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
Yeah, I do talk about that –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– passed. It was opposed by some Democrats. It was opposed by some folks in your own party. And a theme in your book overall is: “doing something is so much better than doing nothing.” As you stand back, do you believe that your party is following that principle right now, senator?
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
We are. We're trying to chip away on some areas, for instance, on the tax policy right now, on what's happening in the economy. We're trying to be able to chip away on those things little by little on it. Quite frankly, we sit back at times and say, "It's such a mess. I'll do nothing." That's the worst possible thing. I actually give an illustration about a tornado in Oklahoma that happens. When you actually come behind a tornado and you stand and you think, "Where do you start?" Well, you start where you're standing. You start right there. Wherever you are, that's where you start because literally everything needs to be cleaned up. And if you look around your communities and families and everything else that we see and just the anger rising in the country it's, like, we can either yell at the anger, or we can say, "Let's do something." Start right where you are and start making an impact. And if each of us does that, look what happens in the country.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, talking about doing something, one of the things you're trying to do right now, Republicans are trying to do, is to pass this budget bill.
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
We are.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It, again, as I was talking about with Secretary Bessent, would extend the 2017 Trump era tax cuts. The chairman of the House Budget Committee, Republican Congressman Jodey Arrington had this to say about the bill, quote, "It's unserious and disappointing. Creating $5.8 trillion in news costs and a mere $4 billion in enforceable cuts." Do you think that President Trump's budget bill, his agenda, is in real trouble?
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
It's not. It's not. Let me tell you the difference here. People are going to look at the Senate budget and say, "You're not, you’re not reducing enough spending on this. We've got to reduce a lot more spending," and we're all nodding our heads going, "Yes, we do have to redo a lot." But a budget bill, as it comes out, is this wide framework to say, "Let's get started." There's no detail in it. And everybody says, "Where's all the detail?" There is no detail in a budget. It's just a framework. The next stage is when we go on to detail. So this bill simply allows us in the process to go to the next bill. Most Americans don't track the process. They want to know what the product is at the end. That's coming in the next several months as we work through, in public, what's the product that's actually going to come out of this.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And just yes or no, you agree with the secretary, you can get this done before the August recess?
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
Oh, absolutely. We can get it done it before August. We absolutely can.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. The book is “Turnaround: America's Revival.” Thank you, senator, for being here to share it with us. We really appreciate it.
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Thank you. And when we come back, Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. Joining me now is Senator Adam Schiff of California. Senator Schiff, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
Thank you. Great to be with you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It is great to have you here. Let's start off by talking about President Trump's tariffs. He calls this an economic revolution. He says that these tariffs are necessary to reset the global economic order and so that the United States is treated fairly on the world stage. How do you respond to that? Do you agree with any part of that?
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
I don't agree with any part of that. And unfortunately he's wrecking our economy. I think people have seen their retirement savings on fire. And there he is out on the golf course. That may end up being the most enduring image of the Trump presidency, that is, the president out on a golf cart while people's retirement is in flames. The treasury secretary is saying that people aren't looking at where the retirement savings are. Maybe he doesn't have to. He's got the wealth, he doesn't have to. Maybe the president with his wealth doesn't have to. But what I'm hearing from Californians is those that have just retired, those that are on the eve of retiring, they're terrified of this. And I hope and pray we stay out of recession. But if we head into a recession, it will be the Trump recession. He will completely own it. This is a completely self-destructive economic act that he's engaged in. And it's not just the tariffs. It's also the freezing of funds, the firing of people, the alienation of our allies. In California I'm hearing from farmers who still haven't recovered market share from the tariffs during the first Trump administration. I'm hearing from people in the tourist industry, you know, people from other countries now who don't want to come here, most particularly Canadians. I'm hearing from others, small business people who are telling me that Canadians are saying, "Don't send us any more of your products. In fact we're going to send you back what you've already sent us." It's the whole range of Trump economic policies that are really hurting people.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And speaking of what you are hearing from Californians, the governor of your state, Gavin Newsom, actually says he's pursuing agreements with other countries to try to exempt California from retaliatory tariffs. Do you think that's appropriate? Do you support California striking unilateral deals with foreign countries?
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
Oh, absolutely. I applaud the governor for doing this. And what's more, I want to encourage people from other countries if, you know, they're considering cancelling their vacation plans to somewhere else, then come to California. We will welcome you in California. And I know I speak for a lot of my constituents who are desperately concerned about how we are alienating some of our closest friends and allies, picking unnecessary fights. That is going to be bad for business. Small business people in particular are really hurting right now. And anything we can do, anything the governor can do, anything I can do to improve the business climate, we're going to do.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I want to talk to you about Congress's role. Because you just heard me talking to Senator Lankford about that bill that's being proposed in the Senate. It would essentially limit the president's power in terms of imposing tariffs. GOP Congressman Don Bacon plans to introduce the same piece of legislation in the House. Do you think there is enough bipartisan support to move that legislation forward and to effectively block President Trump's ability to impose tariffs?
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
I think so. We saw an early indication of this. One of my colleagues, Senator Tim Kaine, offered a resolution on the floor to end this so-called emergency with Canada. That would allow us to essentially curtail at least some of the tariffs. That passed with Republican support. Now, it still would have to get through the House. But there is bipartisan concern with this Trump tax, with this tariff tax, the fact that it is going to push up prices on consumers and already is. So yes, I think given time we can get that done. But we don't have time right now. This economy is in a tailspin. And we need to be wrestling that now.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I do want to ask you about the Democratic Party. There's a new book out by Chris Whipple who reports that in the days before President Biden's devastating debate performance with President Trump, his first chief of staff, Ron Klain, returned to help him prep. Klain reports that he was surprised by the fact that he thought that President Biden was struggling to focus. He said he seemed confused about President Trump's policies, and even fell asleep by the pool after cutting one debate prep session short. Do you think that former President Biden's advisors misled the American people about his capacities?
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
You know, it's hard for me to gauge what the closest advisors to the president were seeing at the time. I can only speak to the interactions that I had with him, which were, you know, in the months leading up to his getting out of the race, largely ceremonial occasions. But, you know, I will say this. He made the decision to get out of the race. I think that was the right decision. The vice president, as the vice president, I think ran a great campaign but could not run away from being a representative of the status quo. And, the fact is that people are hurting and have been hurting for a long time. This is a frankly decades in the making problem where people are working harder than ever and still can't get by. What Donald Trump is doing right now is making that so much worse. But we have to address it. Both parties are going to need to address this. Right now this budget that you're talking about is going to give a massive tax cut for billionaires. And they're going to take it out of middle class families. And they're going to explode the deficit and debt. That's just going to move us further in the wrong direction. So, we're going to have to grapple with some of the central challenges, structural challenges in our economy. I think the failure of Democrats to do that in the past resulted in our losing the White House. The catastrophic, you know, damage they're doing to the economy now is going to cause Trump and Republicans to lose Congress. But both parties are going to have to tackle this global challenge to our economy.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And that takes me to my next question which is Senator Cory Booker, his 25-plus-hour speech on the floor this week. You actually jumped in at one point to ask him a question to give him a little break from speaking. I want to play part of his statement back to you and get your reaction on the other side.
[BEGIN TAPE]
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
I confess that I have been imperfect. I confess that I've been inadequate to the moment. I confess that the Democratic Party has made terrible mistakes that gave a lane to this demagogue. I confess we all must look in the mirror and say, “We will do better.”
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you agree with Senator Booker that the Democratic Party in his words “gave a lane” to President Trump?
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
Well, I definitely agree with him. I think we were guilty of not thinking big and not acting big. One thing that we see, you know, with the Trump administration is you can move the country far and fast if you have the courage of your convictions, if you're willing to be bold. Now they're being bold in a horribly dangerous, destructive direction which is really hurting working families. But, that's no excuse for Democrats not being bold in our own ideas and pushing the country forward. We're going to have to do that. And there's nothing that succeeds like winning. We just won a big important race in Wisconsin. That is a real shot in the arm. The energy you're seeing now manifest around the country in these mass demonstrations show that, you know, the Democratic Party is waking up. And I think Cory Booker did a lot to help Democrats in Washington, in particular, wake up and see these are not normal times. We're not going to be able to fight what they're doing in a normal fashion. But in addition to pushing back aggressively and hard and hours in a row like Cory Booker, we're going to have to be pushing hard on our own big ideas.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Well, I want to ask you about someone else who was in the Democratic Party, I guess, Mayor Eric Adams now running as an independent in the New York mayor's race. But look, all of the corruption charges were dismissed against him. The judge said that the move, quote, "smacks of a bargain, trading a legal dismissal for concessions of New York's immigration policies." You were, of course, a federal prosecutor. How do you see this?
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
Well, this was a totally corrupt bargain between the Trump administration and the mayor of New York in which essentially a deal was struck. "We'll make these charges against you, these serious corruption charges, go away if you'll be a loyal soldier in Donald Trump's immigration army." That's the corrupt bargain that the judge was talking about. And tragically, we're seeing that bargain played out over and over and over again. We're seeing countless lawless actions by the administration, going after universities, going after law firms, patently illegal action. But, we're also seeing a lot of surrender to this illegality, law firms surrendering, universities surrendering. The only way we're going to get through this is if we stand up with courage and defend ourselves, our institution, defend working people. Because ultimately the Americans are going to be hurt by this. Because to the degree the Trump administration is fixated on rescuing corrupt allies or punishing law firms that stood up to him, they're doing nothing about the fentanyl crisis. They're doing nothing about attacking violent criminals. They're spending all their time on petty retribution and abusing the justice department. I'm having a hearing tomorrow, as you know, on this at 3:30 along with Jamie Raskin. We're doing the oversight Republicans refuse to do of these corrupt acts going on in the Justice Department.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Senator Adam Schiff, thank you so much for coming back. We really appreciate it.
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
Great to be with you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good to have you here. When we come back, the U.S. once thought to remove tariffs to boost economic growth. We look back more than 30 years. Our Meet the Press Minute is next. Stay with us.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome Back. President Trump’s tariffs marked what could be the end of an era for free trade in North America, one launched over thirty years ago by the North American Free Trade Agreement, or “NAFTA.” President Bill Clinton signed the landmark deal with Mexico and Canada in 1993, though critics feared it would cost American jobs. President Clinton joined Meet the Press just one week before a major economic summit, with NAFTA still hanging in the balance, to make his case for the agreement on the world stage.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRES. BILL CLINTON:
If I go there and NAFTA passes in the House, it will be a clear statement to Asia number one that the United States is not withdrawing from the world. We are determined to be the world's leading economic power by competing and winning, not from running away. Number two, I'll be able to say what I have been saying to the Asians: Asia's important to us, but we want free trade. We want access to your markets. They will see us developing the NAFTA market, which is not just Mexico, it's Latin America, Canada, the whole nine yards. And that will be enormous pressure on them to conclude these world trade agreements, these GATT talks, by the end of the year. It will also help us with Europe to do that. So I can't tell you how important I think it will be.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, is President Trump gambling with the global economy and his political future? The panel is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is here: NBC News Senior White House correspondent Garrett Haake, Leigh Ann Caldwell, Chief Washington correspondent for Puck, Neera Tanden, President and CEO of the Center for American Progress, and Lanhee Chen, a fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University. Thanks to all of you for being here after what has been a whirlwind week. Garrett, let me start with you. You heard me talk to the Treasury secretary to try to get some clarity around what they mean when they ask Americans to hang tough. Take me inside some of your conversations. What are your sources telling you about the time-frame? What are they asking of Americans right now?
GARRETT HAAKE:
Look, it's very much a moving target, and it depends on who you ask and when you ask them. But I will say, you heard from the president in the open. He thinks this is a couple of years of progress here, process. I think the president also has this political superpower where he can declare victory at any time. I expect to see some of those conversations that the Treasury secretary was talking about turning into trade deals somewhere along the way with some of these perhaps smaller trading partners. Also, the White House is now heavily focused on getting Congress to step up and pass the tax bill. They are hoping that that would be sort of part two to their economic road map here, and that will get some of the heat off them. But I think it's important to remember that this is a president who's not bogged down by a ton of, let’s say, long-held policy positions. But tariffs is different. This is something he has believed in for the entirety of his public career, long before he got into politics. And so I don't see him backing off this in the face of the market uncertainty any time soon.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Leigh Ann, tariffs has been one of the biggest consistents in Donald Trump's entire political career, business career, as Garrett notes. I thought that the conversation with Senator Lankford was notable. We talked about the possibility of legislation passing that would give Congress a little bit more power over tariffs. There are some jitters among Republicans. How long do you think Republicans are going to give President Trump before they start to speak out more forcefully and say, "Hey, we're worried about these tariffs"?
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL:
Well, Garrett says the president says it could be painful for a couple years, where a lot of these Republicans don't have a couple years. They have to face voters in 2026. And remember, the Republican Party, outside of Donald Trump, used to be a free market, free trade party. And so they are watching this very closely. I know there's been a lot of reporting about 90 days. I'm hearing 60 days, the markets need to be super stable for 2026 for Republicans to win. And these Republicans, the ones who are keeping their powders dry right now, they are hoping that this is just a negotiation, that these tariffs are going to start to be rolled back very soon. But no one knows the answer to that, and so that's why Republicans privately are very nervous, even if publicly they're not saying a lot just yet.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, Lanhee, there is so much uncertainty hanging over all of this, and that's part of I think what we're seeing on Wall Street as well. Does President Trump have a breaking point where he says, "I can't take any more of this. I have to shift policies"?
LANHEE CHEN:
Well, every president is going to be responsive to the state of the economy. I think the American economy is incredibly resilient, and I think there's been some early evidence, whether it's jobs coming back in semiconductor manufacturing, jobs coming back in auto manufacturing that the administration can hang its hat on. But of course every administration is going to look at the economic situation. That's going to place political pressure on them. I will say though, what President Trump has successfully done in this regard is to jump-start a conversation on two significant issues. One is how do you deal with the fact that we've had manufacturing jobs leaving America for a long time? And the second thing is how do you deal with the economic predation of countries like China? And that is a conversation that's been started now. Now, whether tariffs are the right answer, that's a different discussion. But in terms of the actual debate, I think he has kicked off an interesting debate on those issues.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Neera, what's your take on all of this? And do you think that Democrats are capitalizing on this moment in an effective way? They're coming off of a fairly strong week, winning that Supreme Court race in Wisconsin, the Cory Booker floor speech. What do you make of what you're seeing from Democrats?
NEERA TANDEN:
Well, you saw in Wisconsin that Democrats moved the electorate 11 points towards Democrats, and that was Tuesday, and that was before Americans lost – Americans and the global economy lost $6 trillion in two days. Of course, the same amount as what was lost during Covid, which was a natural event. No president, no president in my lifetime, has taken economic actions that so forcefully ran our economy seemingly into an iceberg. You are seeing small businesses concerned. You're seeing farmers concerned. You're seeing average Americans concerned. You're seeing big business. Talk about auto companies, Stellantis just announced 900 jobs lost. And I think you saw a lot of anger. You've seen a lot of anger in the Democratic Party, mass rallies. But this is really a fundamental shock to the economy. And when the secretary of Treasury says, basically, "Oh, the thing I'm most focused on is that the market stability held as stocks crashed 2,000 points," I think that's a really 'let them eat cake' moment actually –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, speaking of those rallies, let's remind people of what those rallies looked like. You had folks turning out in states all across this country, Garrett, protesting the Trump agenda, protesting, quite frankly, the cuts by Elon Musk. Based on your conversations, do you think this is a moment where there is so much scrutiny on Elon Musk that he's becoming, in this climate, a liability for President Trump?
GARRETT HAAKE:
Well, look, I think he's clearly a liability for Republicans on the ballot, but I don't think these protests are the kind of thing that's going to change the opinion of Elon Musk within the White House. There I can tell you there is a wide variety of opinions about Elon Musk and his utility. But he's still the world's richest man. He's still deeply enmeshed in the president's agenda. And his supporters in the White House will tell you he is carrying out the president's agenda and, you know, to borrow a rocketry phrase here, he serves as a bit of a heat shield for President Trump. Basically, he gets the blame for the unpopular stuff that the Trump administration is doing. The other thing that I'm told is that the bon ami between he and President Trump, the bromance, is real to a certain point. As long as they are still personally close, as you know the president values his personal –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yes, he does –
GARRETT HAAKE:
--relationships above many other things. As long as they're still personally close I think that's going to sort of protect Musk's role in the MAGA universe. But also, these are two men who have a long history of dramatic flame-outs with other people with whom they've shared power. And then you can't discount that history when you look forward to how this all ends.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, we are seeing former President Barack Obama come off of the sidelines for the first time in a long time, weighing in on this moment. I want to play that and get everyone's reaction on the other side.
[BEGIN TAPE]
FMR. PRES. BARACK OBAMA:
It is up to all of us to fix this. It's not going to be because somebody comes and saves you.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Will that resonate and why now?
NEERA TANDEN:
Well, I think what's really remarkable is how early President Obama's speaking out. As you know, during the first term of Donald Trump, he didn't speak out really until the elections. And now I think it's because you are seeing Democrats really scared and concerned but also some of the institutions that were meant to guard, like law firms and lawyers who are under attack and caving. And so I think what's really interesting about what the president said is, he said that just late in the week and then you see these rallies. And again, these rallies are not just in New York. They're in Asheville. They're in Idaho. They're in Utah, hundreds, tens, thousands of people. And I'm just saying this is much bigger than the tea party was way back in –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Is that true –
NEERA TANDEN:
– 2009.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– Lanhee?
LANHEE CHEN:
Well, politics abhors a vacuum, okay? And what you have is on the Democratic side a complete lack of leadership, arguably, over these last several months. And so it's not surprising that President Obama would try and pick up that mantle. It's not surprising that Cory Booker would have a 25-hour speech. I think they sense political opportunity, one way or another. Now, it's obviously more relevant potentially for Cory Booker who might run for president, but nonetheless, I think this vacuum is very real. And so Democrats will need to start stepping in, in my view.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Leigh Ann.
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL:
So, yes. There is a political vacuum, but the political fortunes can change immediately. And we saw that last week between Donald Trump and Republicans. Democrats are now feeling a little pep in their step with the Cory Booker thing, with the protests. These tariffs are really bad politically, for the moment anyway–
NEERA TANDEN:
Absolutely.
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL:
And –
NEERA TANDEN:
Absolutely –
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL:
– so while there needs to be, Democrats are searching for a leader, they are also aware that Donald Trump can give them momentum too.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, guys, thank you. Great panel, great discussion. Thank you for being here. That is all for today. Thank you so much for watching. We'll be back next week because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.