KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: the new campaign. After President Biden withdraws from the race, Donald Trump faces a new opponent in Vice President Kamala Harris, upending the campaign dynamics with just two-and-half months until Election Day.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
I think I'm entitled to personal attacks. I don't have a lot of respect for her.
VICE PRES. KAMALA HARRIS:
If you want to know who someone cares about, look who they fight for.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Will the renewed enthusiasm help Democrats? My guests this morning: Democratic Governor Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan and Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina. Plus: her story. Kamala Harris prepares to make the biggest speech of her political career at the Democratic Convention in Chicago.
VICE PRES. KAMALA HARRIS:
Now is the time to chart a new way forward.
KRISTEN WELKER:
What is Harris’ vision for the country, and how will it differ from President Biden's? Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Senior White House Correspondent Kelly O'Donnell; NBC 5 Chicago Political Reporter Mary Ann Ahern; Symone Sanders-Townsend, former chief spokeswoman for Vice President Kamala Harris; and Republican strategist Matt Gorman. Welcome to Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. As we come on the air after a brief pause for the Olympics, the race for the White House has dramatically shifted with Vice President Harris now at the top of the ticket. She has reset the race and the electoral map, and tomorrow night, all eyes will be on Chicago as the Democratic National Convention gets underway.
[BEGIN TAPE]
VICE PRES. KAMALA HARRIS:
We are running a campaign on behalf of all Americans. And when elected, we will govern on behalf of all Americans.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
A month ago, President Biden trailed former President Donald Trump nationally and in key battleground states. But now, Harris has narrowed the gap with Mr. Trump nationally, and is leading or tied with him in six out of seven battleground states. That's according to the Cook Political Report, within the margin of error. A New York Times/Siena College battleground poll confirms a highly competitive presidential race in the Sun Belt states of Arizona, Georgia, Nevada and North Carolina. Just a month ago, just a third of Democrats were satisfied with Biden as their nominee. Now, in a CNBC poll, 81% of Democrats say they feel that way about Harris. The volatility in the election has benefitted Harris but now the race is on to define her. How much will her presidency be a continuation of Biden's policies, and where will she break from him? We may get more answers on Thursday night. For his part, Mr. Trump has struggled to adjust to the change in a race he was once winning. Allies urging him to stay focused on policy differences. Instead, he has often veered into personal attacks.
[BEGIN TAPE]
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
The most unpopular vice president in the history of our country. And then they decided to get politically correct. “We have to put her in.” They put her in. She's not smart. She's not intelligent, and we've gone through enough of that with this guy, Crooked Joe.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
This woman is nuts. Look, people say “be nice.” Have you heard her laugh? That is the laugh of a crazy person. That is the laugh of a crazy – the laugh of a lunatic.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Some Republicans, including former rival Nikki Haley, are warning Mr. Trump to stay on message.
[BEGIN TAPE]
FMR. GOV. NIKKI HALEY:
The campaign is not going to win talking about crowd sizes. It's not going to win talking about what race Kamala Harris is. It's not going to win talking about whether she is dumb. It’s not – you can’t win on those things. The American people are smart. Treat them like they're smart.
FMR. REP. KEVIN McCARTHY:
Stop questioning the size of her crowds and start questioning her position when it comes to what did she do as attorney general on crime? Question what did she do when she was supposed to take care of the border as a czar?
KELLYANNE CONWAY:
The winning formula for President Trump is very plain to see. It’s fewer insults, more insights and that policy contrast.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
In a press conference on Thursday, Mr. Trump fired back.
[BEGIN TAPE]
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
I think I'm entitled to personal attacks. I don't have a lot of respect for her. I don't have a lot of respect for her intelligence, and I think she'll be a terrible president. And I think it's very important that we win. And whether the personal attacks are good, bad – I mean, she certainly attacks me personally. She actually called me weird. Some people say, “Oh, why don't you be nice?” But they're not nice to me. They want to put me in prison.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, a co-chair of Harris' campaign, is expected to speak this week in Chicago. Whitmer's out with a new memoir, “True Gretch: What I've Learned About Live, Leadership, and Everything in Between.” And Democratic Governor Gretchen Whitmer joins me now. Governor Whitmer, welcome back to Meet the Press.
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER:
Glad to be with you, Kristen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, it's great to have you on a big Sunday. As I just laid out, Vice President Harris has momentum right now. The question is, can she keep it? Given that President Biden had historically low approval ratings, given that he was running behind Mr. Trump in a number of different issues, almost every issue, in fact, do you believe that Vice President Harris should be doing more to distance herself from President Biden?
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER:
I think President Biden is going to go down as one of the greatest presidents we've had in a long time in this country. And Kamala Harris has been a big part of this administration. They've been partners. They've delivered for the American people. So I think we’ve got to tell that story. I also am excited about this new chapter in American politics. Kamala Harris and Tim Walz I think are a wonderful complement to one another. They're real people who've lived middle class lives. They know what people in this country are going through. And – and they know how to address the problems, whether it's affordable housing, or bringing down the cost of groceries, or helping you if you’re – you're raising kids in your house or just simply fighting for fundamental rights. So there's a lot of energy, it's exciting. But I'm from Michigan so I can tell you, this is going to be a close race all the way through.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let's delve into some of the policies. The vice president laid out some of her economic policies this week. Among other things, she's proposing a ban on price gouging. Here's what Obama administration economist Jason Furman had to say. He said, quote, "This is not sensible policy. And I think the biggest hope is that it ends up being a lot of rhetoric and not reality. There's no upside here, and there is some downside." He warned, effectively, that price controls could ultimately stifle economic growth. So do you think that's the best way to bring down prices in Michigan?
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER:
Well, I think people are – are reading too much into what has been put out there. We know that Kamala Harris is going to be focused on building up more affordable housing. We know that Kamala Harris has already delivered on making sure that health care is more accessible and affordable for Americans. And we'll protect Obamacare. That's a million people who have health care in Michigan right now that Donald Trump's been trying to rip away. That only adds costs onto people's backs. And so that's why I think this opportunity economy that Vice President Harris is – is talking about and laying the broad strokes for I think shows she sees every American, she understands what people are struggling with, and wants to help you keep more money in your pocket. The biggest part of our personal budgets go toward housing, go toward health care, go toward the fundamentals. And she's got a plan on all those fronts to help more Americans be able to get a path to prosperity.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, Governor, I hear you saying that folks are reading too much into it. And yet, it is what the vice president is proposing. You have former President Trump calling the policies “communist.” The Washington Post editorial board called it a “gimmick.” Is this plan to ban price gouging any more than a gimmick, Governor?
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER:
I think it speaks to Kamala Harris's values, that she wants consumers to keep more money in their pockets. She wants hard working Americans to be able to get ahead. She wants to make sure that there is corporate responsibility. We know we have to have business growth in this country – small business growth, big business growth – for good paying jobs. But we also know that you can't gouge and – and hurt the American consumer just to pad your bottom line. And I think there's a – there’s – there’s a balance there, and I think that's what this is all about.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So you think it's smart policy, Governor?
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER:
You know, I – I think that any effort we make to keep more money in Americans’ pockets is worth walking the path, and having the conversations, and figuring out how do we make this economy work for everybody.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let's talk big picture. The campaign's only a month old. Obviously, everything that she's said in the past is starting to come into focus. When she ran in 2020, you will recall she called for banning fracking, supporting single payer health care, eliminating private health insurance. The campaign says she no longer supports those positions. The Trump campaign, though, is calling her a “chameleon.” Do you think that Vice President Harris needs to do more to explain why she has shifted on those positions?
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER:
Well, any, I think, insult from the Trump campaign is laughable, when you think about his years in office and who he fought for. He fought for himself. He's laid out nothing in terms of a vision for America. He's feeding into people's anxieties and anger. That's what he always does. But he's never done anything that makes someone's life a little bit better. In fact, his time in office we had record job loss. We saw so many deaths from Covid because it was – because he put out misinformation, denied that it was even a problem. I mean, this is a guy who – he calls other people names, but offers nothing of value to the American people when it comes to a vision or a plan to make people's lives better. And that contrast is stark. What you're going to see this week in Chicago is a bunch of happy warriors who understand the middle class, understand how we pull more people into the middle class, and make sure that every one of us can have that path to prosperity, and live our American Dream, and take care of our families.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, let me ask you about her running mate, Tim Walz, and particularly on the issue of immigration. Obviously some of his policies in his state have come into focus. He signed into law initiatives allowing undocumented immigrants to apply for driver's licenses, quality free – for free tuition at public universities, and enroll in the state's free health care program for low income residents. Would you like to see the Harris administration adopt those same policies, Governor?
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER:
Well, I could tell you, you know, Tim Walz is a pragmatic guy. He's a Midwesterner just like me. And I think some of the wonderful things he's done in Minnesota resonate with, you know, Americans in all states. We know that when you give – when you provide free breakfast and lunch for all the school kids in your state, you're saving parents $850 bucks a year per student just on the grocery bill. So I think what you see in Tim Walz is a pragmatist who wants to make sure that we are a beacon that people come to. You need to come legally. We need to secure our borders. But we also know that the great history of this country is that we were the place that people came to for an opportunity. And that’s got to be the great future of it too.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But – but – so do you – would you support the Harris administration, if she were to be elected, adopting those proposals I just laid out for you? For example, driver's licenses for those who are undocumented?
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER:
I think what we need to do is have a system – an immigration system that works, number one. We need to secure the border, we need to make sure that when people are in this country, that they have access to have some form of ID. That's really important. And I think to the spirit of those things, I think, should be a part of any vision for the – for the country, and our security, and how we bring great people into this country legally.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Let's talk about the convention coming up this week. Organizers are bracing for tens of thousands of pro-Palestinian protesters to converge in Chicago. I want you to take a look at how Vice President Harris responded to protesters at a rally in Detroit just last week. Take a look.
[BEGIN TAPE]
VICE PRES. KAMALA HARRIS:
I'm here because we believe in democracy. Everyone's voice matters, but I am speaking now. You know what? If you want Donald Trump to win, then say that. Otherwise, I'm speaking.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Governor, do you think she handled that moment well?
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER:
Yeah, I'm – I’m not going to go and second guess. It was kind of in the moment. I can tell you this: Kamala Harris cares about every person. She cares about Arab American voters, and Muslim voters and Palestinian voters. She cares about Jewish voters and – and Jewish Americans as well. You can both want peace in the region and a cessation of violence, and the return of hostages. We are a country that continually falls into these false choices. You can do both. And I think that's why we need a leader like her. She's been meeting with people in the communities, in all of these communities. Her campaign cares about everyone. And I think that's evident in her policies and the seat at the table she's making for every person. And I know Tim Walz feels the same. There is more work to do because there is a lot of pain. And I'm hopeful that the Biden administration will have something that can be announced soon. What Netanyahu's comments and what we're seeing from Hamas looks like they're making some progress. I know they're hard at work at it, and I'm – I’m still very hopeful about that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. A lot of people watching those talks quite closely, that's for sure. Let me ask you about your book. Here it is, “True Gretch.” In it you write about when you were out campaigning for governor in 2018. And when a voter asked you if you would run, quote, "as a woman," and you write that you, quote, "did run as a woman, but not only as a woman." What's notable, that was just two years after Hillary Clinton's historic presidential campaign. She made a point of reminding voters that she was trying to break the glass ceiling. Do you think that Vice President Kamala Harris should be learning in more to the historic nature of her campaign?
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER:
Well you know what, it is historic, and I think so many of us see it. We're excited about it. I remember going to Philadelphia in 2016 with my daughters in the car with me, and thinking, "My girls grow up – have grown up with eight years of an African American president, and we were on the cusp of perhaps having a female president.” And those were things I never, ever could've conceived, growing up in this country when I did. And so I do think that it is historic. And women in leadership, I think you see the results. I've got seven colleagues who are female Democratic governors doing great work in all of our states. And Kamala Harris is going to make a seat at the table for every person. And I think that's a uniquely female characteristic in leadership. And I'm excited. That is one part of – of what we're going to be talking about this week, the historic nature of it. But also she's a pragmatist. She's a great leader, and she just wants to get stuff done. And I think that's the most important thing.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Governor, I have to ask you about another part of your book, one of the more powerful parts, when you talk about the 2020 kidnapping/assassination plot against you. You write that the experience changed you. You said, quote, "It's not that I live in fear, but there's a heightened awareness now that I didn't have before. Not just as a governor, but as a person. As a mom, and as a wife." Here we are in this heated election campaign cycle, and of course there was just an assassination attempt against former President Trump. Do you fear for your own safety right now, Governor?
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER:
I don't. But I do fear for everyone around me. I've got the Michigan State Police, and they worked very closely with the FBI when that plot was – was – you know, being – when they were executing all the different steps that they were going to do in preparation for the kidnapping and – and the, you know, killing of me. I never felt personally unsafe. But I do worry about the people around me. And I think that's a very real thing that I will always take. And I write about that, but I also write some of the lesson in the book, which is, you know, you can't take all these things personally. That might surprise people, that I want to actually sit down and understand what drove these men to do this. Because I do think listening is a superpower, whether you're in the private sector or public sector, politics, or – or anything else. Understanding, seeing the humanity in someone, and – and learning I think is really important, and – and listening. So the book, I talk about ten things I've learned in my life that have helped me navigate the last six years. It's an effort to put some inspiration out into the world in a heavy time. Maybe it's just a little light reading or you get a laugh at my expense. But that's what “True Gretch” is all about, to put some leadership skills out in the world, but also some lightness too.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Finally, Governor, I have to ask you. Last week President Biden said he was not confident there would be a peaceful transfer of power in 2025 if former President Trump were to win re-election. Are you confident there will be? If he – if he were to lose re-election would you be confident that there would be a peaceful transfer of power?
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER:
Well, I think he's already trying to stoke the, you know, suspicions of people. And I think that's an effort directly to play into his ability to discount the outcome of this upcoming election if he doesn't like the outcome. That's not how democracy works. And I think it's important that we're all vigilant. I know in Michigan we've strengthened our election laws, protecting election workers, et cetera. But I still anticipate that they will use similar tactics to what they used four years ago. And I think that we should all be very concerned about that, and what that – what that could mean for safety, for integrity of our democratic institutions, and the future of this country.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Governor Gretchen Whitmer, thank you so much for your time this morning. We really appreciate it. We will see you at the Democratic National Convention next week. And we do have a quick note to our viewers. Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer had planned to join us this morning. He unfortunately is not feeling well. We look forward to him joining us in the near future. When we come back, can former President Trump pivot his campaign to face his new opponent? Republican Senator Lindsey Graham joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. While Democrats hold their convention in Chicago, former President Trump and his running mate, Senator JD Vance, are planning a series of counter-programming events, beginning tomorrow with a Trump speech on the economy in York, Pennsylvania, while Vance campaigns in Philadelphia. Joining me now is Trump ally, Republican senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina. Senator Graham, welcome back to Meet The Press.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Thank you. Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, thank you for being here. Let's start with some of the concerns that former President Trump's allies have had about him not staying on message and the way that he is talking about his new rival, Vice President Kamala Harris. Here's what Nikki Haley had to say about that. Take a look.
[START TAPE]
NIKKI HALEY:
The campaign is not going to win talking about crowd sizes. It's not going to win talking about what race Kamala Harris is. It's not going to win talking about whether she's dumb. It’s not – you can't win on those things. I think the campaign needs to focus. That's the main thing. Look, this is a winnable election, but you need to focus.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, do you agree with Nikki Haley's assessment?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah, I don't think, I don’t look at Vice President Harris as a lunatic. I look at her as the most liberal person to ever get nominated for president in the history of the United States. She's going to the Soviet Union playbook to lower prices, called price control. She wants to eliminate private health care. She's for reparations. She's against fracking. She's for the Green New Deal. On and on and on. So I would make it about policy. A nightmare for Harris is to defend her policy choices. Every day we're not talking about her policy choices as vice president and what she would do as president is a good day for her and a bad day for us.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And of course, her campaign has said she's actually not opposed to fracking, but the broader question here--
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Right.
KRISTEN WELKER:
--Senator Graham is--
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
How can you be for the Green New Deal--wait a minute, wait a minute--how can you be for the Green New Deal and not be opposed to fracking?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, let me--
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
That's B.S. Go ahead. I'm sorry.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. Let me ask you the big picture, bottom line me here, do you think former President Trump should stop talking about Vice President Harris' race and intelligence?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah, I think my view is that me and Nikki need to go to Georgia. We're giving advice on TV to President Trump. He's got a lot of critics. He's got a lot of advisors. But Nikki Haley and DeSantis and Youngkin and all these great people we have, let's get together and actually campaign for the guy rather than just give advice. But in the advice-giving column here's what I would say: Donald Trump--President Trump can win this election. His policies are good for America, and if you have a policy debate for president he wins. Donald Trump, the provocateur, the showman, may not win this election. So, I'm looking for President Trump to show up in the last 80 days to define what he will do for our country to fix broken borders, to lower inflation. The numbers that Americans are living with under Harris/Biden are terrible: 50% increase in gas prices, mortgage rates going through the roof, grocery costs are really high. That's what I would focus on. Policy. Policy is the key to the White House.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Let's talk policy. of course, we did get new inflation numbers this week, their lowest level since 2021. But I do want to talk to you about policies. Former President Trump talking about tariffs when he was at a rally in Pennsylvania yesterday. of course, his proposal to impose tariffs on all goods coming into the United States. Take a look at what he had to say.
[START TAPE]
FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP:
A tariff is a tax on a foreign country. That's the way it is, whether you like it or not. A lot of people like to say, "Oh, it's a tax on us." No, no, no. It's a tax on a foreign country.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, do you acknowledge what almost every economist agrees to, which is that ultimately consumers bear the burden of tariffs?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
In theory, yes, but how do you get people to change their behavior when they're cheating you? You put a tariff on their products. I want to put a tariff on every country who buys oil from Iran to stop them from buying oil from a terrorist country. So, if you're Russia and you're China and you're buying oil from the the Ayatollah going around sanctions, I'd like to put a tariff on products coming into America, so you'd stop helping a terrorist. Here's Trump's policy on tariffs that I embrace without hesitation: Whatever you do to us we're going to do to you. His number one view of tariffs is reciprocal. If you put a tariff on our products, we're going to put one on yours. Let's try to eliminate tariffs to the extent we can. That makes a lot of common sense to me.
Trump was strong against China. He actually put tariffs on China's cheating practices and they changed their behavior. He threatened to put tariffs on Mexico unless they helped us with immigration, and they actually did. Tariffs as a tool to change behavior can be good.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, and just to be clear, the nonpartisan Tax Foundation determined that those tariffs that you mentioned imposed some $80 billion of new taxes on consumers. So, just to be clear, you would support his plan to impose tariffs on all goods coming into the U.S., 100% tariffs?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Just to be clear, I support his idea that whatever a country does to us on tariffs we're go to do to you. So, if you make a car in Europe and we put a 10% tariff on it, and we make a car in America and sell it to Europe, and they put a 30% tariff on our cars, we're going to 30%. That's the Trump policy. That makes eminent sense to me. So, to those who are watching what Trump may do in the second term: I think he will use tariffs to change behavior, and I think he will try to impose tariffs on people who impose tariffs on our products. Let's all go to zero, if we can.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Well, look, we are all about to watch what happens at the Democratic National Convention. I want to talk about something that happened at the Republican National Convention. The Republicans rolled out their platform and on the issue of abortion, it did not call for a national abortion ban for the first time in 40 years, Senator. You, of course, have supported a 15-week national ban on abortion. Here's what you said about the platform right before it was rolled out.
[START TAPE]
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
If we change our platform and we buy into the narrative, "Being pro-life is bad politics, being strong for the second amendment is bad politics," we're going to be net losers because the people who believe like we do are going to abandon us because we've abandoned what makes us different.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, do you still think the party's new position is a mistake?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
No, I think what they were able to do is kind of thread a needle here. They talked about the unborn child has a constitutional right to life. President Trump is a states' rights guy with exceptions for rape, incest, life of the mother. I believe most Americans want those exceptions. They're opposing any law that makes a raped woman carry a child. Like 80% of Americans are against that. But also most Americans are against late-term abortion. But he's our nominee. He believes the states' rights approach is the way to go. The platform, I'm okay with. We'll continue to have this discussion. But we're not going to win or lose based on abortion. We're going to win or lose based on can we change the policy trajectory of this country, can we lower gas prices, can we control the border, can we lower your food prices? The good news is we can, because we did. We're not going to the Soviet Union playbook to fix the problems of America. We're going to capitalism, American competition, entrepreneurship, and common sense to lower prices for America.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, would you advise Mr. Trump, if he were to be elected, to support a federal ban?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I'm going to keep being me. I think most Americans are opposed to late-term abortions. That's my--
KRISTEN WELKER:
But so is that--
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
--personal views--
KRISTEN WELKER:
--yes, Senator? Is that a yes?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
--70 percent. Well, I'm going to keep saying that there should be – at some point the baby feels pain. You know, our policy – in France they limit abortion at 14 weeks. A 15-week ban doesn't ban abortion. It protects unborn children from an excruciating death. This is a debate worth a great country to have, but this election's not going to be about abortion. It's going to be about the economy and a world on fire. And the nightmare for Kamala Harris is to have to defend her policy choices and explain to the American people why the world is not on fire. Governor Whitmer said Biden was a great president. He's been a disaster. And the disaster will continue with Harris.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, let's talk about the rest of the world, since you bring it up.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yes.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And I want to start by talking about Mr. Trump's running mate. You have expressed criticism of Senator Vance in the past, particularly on the issue of the war in Ukraine. You've called his arguments against military support “garbage.” You are just back from a trip to Ukraine. We're going to get to it in one minute. But first on this question, do you think that Senator Vance has enough foreign policy and national security experience to step in the role of president on day one, if that were to be necessary?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah, I completely support him. I think he'd be a much better choice than Walz, that JD could go into office and pursue an American-first agenda. His concern about Ukraine is we're stretched too thin. We're giving them weapons we may need to fight China. And here's my response to what he says: The best way to prevent fighting China is to be strong on Ukraine. If China sees Putin winning by force of arms, taking territory of Ukraine and getting away with it, they're going to take Taiwan. This disaster of an invasion by Putin is really biting him. NATO is stronger. He's an indicted war criminal. He's lost the entire European continent, almost, for gas customers because of this invasion. So, I want to deter China, and the best way to deter China, I think, is to get Ukraine right. And I just got back from Ukraine. I am in awe of these people. We were told Kyiv would fall in four days. Well, two and a half years later, they're taking Russian territory. They're in Russia. They've taken half of what Putin seized from the initial invasion. And we need to pour it on and help these people, when it comes to dealing with this Russian invasion, to reset the world.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Well, since you told us about your trip to Ukraine let me ask you about the Middle East very quickly. President Biden has said on ceasefire talks in Gaza, quote, that they are, "in the end game." Do you think that is accurate? Do you think they're close to getting a deal to release the hostages?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I hope and pray, but right back to Ukraine, the number one request of President Zelenskyy of me was to go to President Biden and ask him to lift the restrictions on how they can use weapons. Canada did this. We need to go all in on allowing them to use these weapons to get Putin to the negotiating table. We're not going to win in Ukraine by military conquests of Moscow or Kyiv. But we've got to get Putin to the table, and he will come to the table when the pain gets too great. Lift the restrictions, President Biden, on the weapons that have been late to get to Ukraine. As to the ceasefire, I'm hoping and praying the hostages come back, but I'll say this until I can't say it anymore. What is the day after like? If we get a ceasefire and we don't have the Arabs come in and take over the Palestinian file, we will be right back at it again. So, normalization between Saudi Arabia and Israel is the key to a permanent peace in the Mideast. And I've been working with President Biden to achieve that goal, and I still think we can.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, you take me to my final question. You've been working with President Biden for quite some time, including in the Senate. Do you think your former colleague in the Senate made the right decision by deciding not to run again, Senator Graham?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah. I think he did. I think he did it for the country and for his party. I've always enjoyed my relationship with him. We have deep and wide policy differences, but President Biden, give Ukraine the ability to fight back to end this war on favorable terms. I will help you land the biggest deal in decades in the Mideast. I will help you find a way to have Saudi Arabia and Israel normalize. I will push Israel to do what they need to on the Palestinian file, to get MBS to take over Palestine and reform the West Bank. I wish you well. Let's end on a high note here--
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right--
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
--President Biden.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator Lindsey Graham, thank you so much. When we come back –
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Thank you..
KRISTEN WELKER:
– Vice President Harris is about to face the biggest test of her political career at the convention in Chicago. The panel joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is here. NBC News Senior White House Correspondent, Kelly O'Donnell; Mary Ann Ahern, political reporter from our NBC station in the convention city of Chicago; Symone Sanders-Townsend, former Chief Spokesperson to Vice President Kamala Harris, and host of The Weekend; and Matt Gorman, Former Senior Communications Advisor to Tim Scott for America.What a great panel. Thanks for being here. Kelly, kick it off for us because, boy, this was going to be a very different convention with President Biden at the top of the ticket. Now you have Vice President Harris, her running mate, Tim Walz. Set the stakes.
KELLY O’DONNELL:
There's usually years of planning. It's all condensed into a reworked, remade process. And what you will see is sort of a love letter and a thank you note to Joe Biden. And that will be a way to honor his service, to talk about his accomplishments. And you will see the words, quotes from Joe Biden that will decorate the set and the scene. And part of that will be to make the transformation. Because implicit in the praise of Joe Biden will be his decision to step aside. And that this will be a chance to honor him. And it is different than other conventions because normally from the get-go, it's all about the nominee. Not in this case. They want to give him a moment and then show that he is in fact the one responsible for choosing Kamala Harris as his running mate and then endorsing her and making this possible. So, we will see that play out. And it will be very emotional starting Monday.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And – and the optics are, as you say Kelly, going to be so powerful. Mary Ann, I hope you're prepared to host us all. Cause –
MARY ANN AHERN:
Come on down! Deep dish is ready.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– we’re, in a few hours we’re all going to get on a plane and descend on your city. What are you going to be watching for? Set the scene and the mood in Chicago right now.
MARY ANN AHERN:
Well, I do think politically we're going to be checking to see how unified is the party?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
MARY ANN AHERN:
We saw the Republican convention, there was a lot of unity. So we see it outwardly at these rallies. But inside the convention hall, is it going to be quite that unified? Perhaps it will. But then in Chicago, of course, everyone is concerned operationally. How is this convention going to go off? There is almost the sense, we spoke to someone who said, "It feels like pre-hurricane mode." There have been some businesses that have boarded up just –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Wow.
MARY ANN AHERN:
– just concerned about the protests along the route. There of course are businesses that have told people, "Stay home. Don't work – don’t come into work. Don't come downtown." The city says it's ready. The mayor says it's ready. The governor and the police say they're ready. But when you hear that the federal judges – they've wrapped a fence around the federal courthouse, and the federal judges will stay home and work from home. As well as doctors' offices calling and saying, "Your routine appointment, perhaps you might not want to come next week."
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
MARY ANN AHERN:
So there's the politics and there's the operation. And I think after next Thursday night, Chicago is going to go, "Phew, thank you so much, but that was great."
KRISTEN WELKER:
The operation, I cannot imagine how complicated it is. Everyone is ready as Mary Ann says. Symone, is Vice President Harris ready? The biggest test of her entire political career. It's fascinating because she's been the sitting vice president. She's tried to cast herself as this shiny new object to reintroduce herself. And that's going to be her goal on Thursday.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
I mean, look, I think the Vice President does represent change for so many people because of the historic nature of her candidacy. She was the first obviously woman, first woman of color to serve as vice president. And so for that, it just feels different for people. And so she has not necessarily saddled with what an incumbent vice president, right, would be usually saddled with in a race like this. I would also note it has been a while since a sitting vice president ran for president in an active administration. So, this is something that the electorate has not experienced in a number of cycles. And she's – she’s benefiting from that. So, I think this upcoming week you're going to see, I think, it is just the flowers, if you will, for Joe Biden, but also how the Vice President's campaign and her candidate – and her eventual presidency if she is elected will build on what Joe Biden has done while also distinctly carving out a space for herself. It is a – it is a line, a tight line, to walk, but something that I think the vice president is – is very familiar with.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, meanwhile, Matt, allies of former President Trump, as I was just discussing with Lindsey Graham, say that he's struggling to figure out how to approach this new competitor that he has. He's been going after her personally, last night again, saying, "I'm much better looking than her. I'm a better looking person than Kamala." What are people saying inside Trump world? How much concern is there?
MATT GORMAN:
I mean, this dates back to – even go back to 2016 when Carly Fiorina had a moment. He really had trouble calibrating running against that. Running the playbook against Joe Biden, very different to say the least than running against a Black woman. And look, the best argument, the best attack against Kamala Harris, is not purely personal. It's not purely political – policy. It's that she doesn't have politically core principles. She doesn’t have, you know – they call her a chameleon. And I think what gave evidence to that, and why Republicans are a little bit encouraged by in the last 72 hours, is she's taking great pains through anonymous aides to walk back a lot of her positions from 2020. But then the first thing she puts her name to, it's pretty far left and gotten a lot of criticism, as you pointed out, with Jason Furman and Washington Post, et cetera.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. And of course Republicans, as you saw Lindsey Graham, have been seizing on those positions from 2020 as well. Let's zoom out, Kelly. Where are we in this race? You look at the polls and, boy, nationally in the battleground states, it's competitive again.
KELLY O’DONNELL:
It's competitive. And no one should think that it is not going to be a tight race, because it will be. And it is still the core group of six, seven, eight states that are critical. Now the movement is there. You're seeing a bump for Kamala Harris right now. The Trump side definitely believes this is still structurally favorable to President Trump. And they believe that they can do that. At the same time, Democrats are very energized. They see new momentum. And the Harris campaign is looking at, for example, the persuadable voter who is typically not involved, typically doesn't think their vote makes a difference. Can they make some inroads there? And they're also doing things like advertising on Fox News during the daytime where they think Nikki Haley voters and more moderate Republicans, they might be able to peel some of those voters off.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Symone, speaking about outreach, I mean, there's a lot of pressure on Kamala Harris to get out, to do more interviews. She hasn't done any interviews yet. Of course, there's going to be a debate. Do you think she's going to shift the strategy? She says she's going to do one after the convention.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
Well, yeah, look I think that the context here matters, and a month ago Joe Biden was the nominee. So, when – when the Vice President does sit down to an interview, she is going to have to answer questions specifically as to what Matt said. Why – what has changed? What is the difference here? Tell us in depth about her policy proposals. And that is not something that frankly one can get ready in a week and a half or two weeks in a switch. And frankly, if it was ready, I would have been concerned of if there was a shadow situation going on. Because that runs counter to everything that I know, you know, the Vice President believes about support and loyalty to the president. So, I think we'll see an interview soon right after the convention. And that makes sense to me.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Matt, quickly, and then we'll get to Mary Ann.
MATT GORMAN:
No, I mean, I think what happens when you don't address the media – we see this with Tim Walz – you allow storylines, like things whether it’s the military service, the drunk driving circumstance, to fester. JD learned that. He's doing more interviews. Kamala needs to do that too.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
I will just say she has been speaking plane side so that matters. So, I think that matters.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, she has been talking on the plane. Mary Ann, quickly, Chicago as a location, the significance.
MARY ANN AHERN:
Well, all right, New York has Broadway. L.A. has Hollywood. Chicago? We've got political conventions.
KRISTEN WELKER:
1968 when there were protests.
MARY ANN AHERN:
Yes. 1968. This is our 26th convention to host.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Oh wow that’s huge.
MARY ANN AHERN:
1968, the most infamous one, the fight was not only outside. Of course, you've seen that chaos. But it was inside, fighting over where delegates were going to sit, who was going to speak. There might still be some of that. As we know that there are 30 uncommitted delegates. Doesn't sound like a lot, but that represents 700,000 who represent Palestinian human rights. They want to know if they're going to be able to speak.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, well, everyone stick around. We're going have more with you guys. But when we come back, a look back 20 years ago to a convention speech that captured the attention of the Democratic Party and the nation. Our Meet The Press Minute is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. Former President Barack Obama will address Democrats in Chicago on Tuesday night 20 years after he delivered the keynote speech in Boston, calling for an end to divisions between red states and blue states. Then a state senator from Illinois and a rising star in his party, Mr. Obama joined Meet the Press from the convention hall ahead of his historic address,
INTERVIEWER:
Traditionally the keynoter is a governor, a senator, a congressman. You're the first state legislator in the history of the party. The New York Times said this today. "Already seen as a rising star within the party, Mr. Obama could win wide acclaim or dim his fortunes." Are you nervous?
FMR. PRES. BARACK OBAMA:
You know, I used to play basketball, and if you weren't a little nervous before the big game, you probably wouldn't play a good game. So, I think the adrenaline's going to be pumping, but I think we're going to be well prepared. I'm very happy with the speech. And what I'm going to be trying to do is tell the stories that I'm hearing on the campaign trail about workers who are being laid off and are looking for jobs that can support their families, about young women and men who want to go to college, have the will, the drive but don't have the money. If I'm as eloquent as they are when they tell me what their hopes and dreams are, then I think I'll be successful.
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, the running mates. What are voters telling us about their first impressions? We have more with the panel next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is still here. In addition to Vice President Harris, former President Trump, all eyes are on their running mates. Kelly O'Donnell, Tim Walz has his biggest night coming up this week.
KELLY O’DONNELL:
He certainly does, and top aides say they are building the plane and flying it at the same time to get ready. I've learned that – a couple of things about how they're going to roll him out. Expect coach, teacher, veteran story lines, where people from those chapters of his life will appear in person and on video. And one of the changes that we'll have is that first lady of Minnesota, Gwen Walz, will not speak in person but will narrate a video about him. That's a change-up and in part in order to make way for some of these other individuals who can talk about Coach Walz. Expect a lot of that, de-emphasizing, to a degree, some of the questions about being a veteran. Also, one of the things I was really struck by is advisors say that he is particularly comfortable playing second to a woman candidate. He is a governer. He is the executive of his state. And yet, they're already finding in chemistry and body language, they think, that he is comfortable there. And that is something they think Harris needs.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, that's fascinating because one of the big story lines obviously, Matt Gorman, that we are watching right now is what is a growing gender gap. Right now, Kamala Harris has a significant lead among women. And there is some concern that some of these past statements that have been unearthed that JD Vance has said may be hurting Donald Trump when it comes to women.
MATT GORMAN:
We talk about rollout, right? Normally, VPs get at least a week or two before the convention to define themselves, take a breath. He didn't have that luxury, right? Because you have the post-Biden debate fallout. They didn't want to step on that. Trump is shot, and he's announced that Monday at the convention, and we're rolling. And of course Biden drops out later that week. So, coming out of the convention, you talk to Vance folks, and their image and favorability were hurting a little bit. But they've hit a reset: consistently doing more media. Their image has improved. Expect him to do consistently more of that and contrast it with Walz.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Mary Ann.
MARY ANN AHERN:
Well, to borrow a page from my mentor and former moderator, Tim Russert—and also a John Carroll University alum where I am from—it was about "Florida, Florida, Florida--"
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let's see it.
MARY ANN AHERN:
--in 2000. But it is about "women, women, "women" for sure. Think about, in 2016: 53% of white women did not vote for Hillary Clinton. It's not just about race; it's also about age. Young people, energized. What about older voters? They're more reliable voters. And then finally, those soccer moms. The soccer moms are saying it's gas, grocery, daycare, you know? So, where do they line up for both of them?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well--
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
There are policies that speak to that. You think about 2016, as well, during that election in the general, there were lots of younger women who said they thought that they would have another opportunity to elect a woman president, and they decidedly did not cast ballots for Secretary Clinton. Now, I personally think that was a mistake on their part, because that ushered in Donald Trump, and here we are. So, now, are those voters, are they feeling differently about this election? I talked to some young women voters, Millennial Black women voters from North Carolina recently—Melissa Murray and I did—and they keep referring to it as "the switch" from Biden to Vice President Harris. And they said they think it's historic; they're excited for her, but they want to know more. And they are not sure yet if they're going to cast their ballot for her.
KRISTEN WELKER:
This is where the issue of abortion become so challenging quite frankly for Republicans. Matt, you and I have talked about this for a long time. Have Republicans found their footing on how to talk about that issue yet?
MATT GORMAN:
First of all, what they're doing in these referendums in states reminds me of what Republicans did in '04 around same-sex marriage: Putting referendums up in swing states. Look, absolutely there's a subset of voters who will go to the polls solely on abortion. What I'm watching now is: Does immigration also count? With the left pushing abortion, the right pushing immigration, who wins the side of that coin is going to tell us a lot about where we are in November.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Kelly, 30 seconds left.
KELLY O’DONNELL:
One of the things that Tim Walz has learned is that you can have your record tested when you're running for Congress or running for governer, and it's a whole new level when it's the national spotlight. And they're having to adjust to that, that it's not just setting the record straight. It's that those are enduring attacks.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
Tim Walz is a Nebraska native. As a native Nebraskan, I am confident in his nimbleness.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Well, fantastic conversation. Mary Ann, thank you for traveling here--
MARY ANN AHERN:
Come on. Get to Chicago with me.
KRISTEN WELKER:
We'll travel right back to you. Thank you. Before we go, a programming note. Watch live convention coverage from Chicago all this week beginning at 4:00 p.m. Eastern with Meet the Press Now, on NBC News Now and at 10:00 p.m. Eastern, on NBC News. And tune into next Sunday's broadcast. You don't want to miss it. My exclusive sitdown interview with Republican vice presidential nominee Senator JD Vance. That is all for today. Thank you so much for watching. We'll be back next week, because if it's Sunday it's Meet the Press.
KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: the new campaign. After President Biden withdraws from the race, Donald Trump faces a new opponent in Vice President Kamala Harris, upending the campaign dynamics with just two-and-half months until Election Day.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
I think I'm entitled to personal attacks. I don't have a lot of respect for her.
VICE PRES. KAMALA HARRIS:
If you want to know who someone cares about, look who they fight for.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Will the renewed enthusiasm help Democrats? My guests this morning: Democratic Governor Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan and Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina. Plus: her story. Kamala Harris prepares to make the biggest speech of her political career at the Democratic Convention in Chicago.
VICE PRES. KAMALA HARRIS:
Now is the time to chart a new way forward.
KRISTEN WELKER:
What is Harris’ vision for the country, and how will it differ from President Biden's? Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Senior White House Correspondent Kelly O'Donnell; NBC 5 Chicago Political Reporter Mary Ann Ahern; Symone Sanders-Townsend, former chief spokeswoman for Vice President Kamala Harris; and Republican strategist Matt Gorman. Welcome to Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. As we come on the air after a brief pause for the Olympics, the race for the White House has dramatically shifted with Vice President Harris now at the top of the ticket. She has reset the race and the electoral map, and tomorrow night, all eyes will be on Chicago as the Democratic National Convention gets underway.
[BEGIN TAPE]
VICE PRES. KAMALA HARRIS:
We are running a campaign on behalf of all Americans. And when elected, we will govern on behalf of all Americans.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
A month ago, President Biden trailed former President Donald Trump nationally and in key battleground states. But now, Harris has narrowed the gap with Mr. Trump nationally, and is leading or tied with him in six out of seven battleground states. That's according to the Cook Political Report, within the margin of error. A New York Times/Siena College battleground poll confirms a highly competitive presidential race in the Sun Belt states of Arizona, Georgia, Nevada and North Carolina. Just a month ago, just a third of Democrats were satisfied with Biden as their nominee. Now, in a CNBC poll, 81% of Democrats say they feel that way about Harris. The volatility in the election has benefitted Harris but now the race is on to define her. How much will her presidency be a continuation of Biden's policies, and where will she break from him? We may get more answers on Thursday night. For his part, Mr. Trump has struggled to adjust to the change in a race he was once winning. Allies urging him to stay focused on policy differences. Instead, he has often veered into personal attacks.
[BEGIN TAPE]
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
The most unpopular vice president in the history of our country. And then they decided to get politically correct. “We have to put her in.” They put her in. She's not smart. She's not intelligent, and we've gone through enough of that with this guy, Crooked Joe.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
This woman is nuts. Look, people say “be nice.” Have you heard her laugh? That is the laugh of a crazy person. That is the laugh of a crazy – the laugh of a lunatic.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Some Republicans, including former rival Nikki Haley, are warning Mr. Trump to stay on message.
[BEGIN TAPE]
FMR. GOV. NIKKI HALEY:
The campaign is not going to win talking about crowd sizes. It's not going to win talking about what race Kamala Harris is. It's not going to win talking about whether she is dumb. It’s not – you can’t win on those things. The American people are smart. Treat them like they're smart.
FMR. REP. KEVIN McCARTHY:
Stop questioning the size of her crowds and start questioning her position when it comes to what did she do as attorney general on crime? Question what did she do when she was supposed to take care of the border as a czar?
KELLYANNE CONWAY:
The winning formula for President Trump is very plain to see. It’s fewer insults, more insights and that policy contrast.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
In a press conference on Thursday, Mr. Trump fired back.
[BEGIN TAPE]
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
I think I'm entitled to personal attacks. I don't have a lot of respect for her. I don't have a lot of respect for her intelligence, and I think she'll be a terrible president. And I think it's very important that we win. And whether the personal attacks are good, bad – I mean, she certainly attacks me personally. She actually called me weird. Some people say, “Oh, why don't you be nice?” But they're not nice to me. They want to put me in prison.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, a co-chair of Harris' campaign, is expected to speak this week in Chicago. Whitmer's out with a new memoir, “True Gretch: What I've Learned About Live, Leadership, and Everything in Between.” And Democratic Governor Gretchen Whitmer joins me now. Governor Whitmer, welcome back to Meet the Press.
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER:
Glad to be with you, Kristen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, it's great to have you on a big Sunday. As I just laid out, Vice President Harris has momentum right now. The question is, can she keep it? Given that President Biden had historically low approval ratings, given that he was running behind Mr. Trump in a number of different issues, almost every issue, in fact, do you believe that Vice President Harris should be doing more to distance herself from President Biden?
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER:
I think President Biden is going to go down as one of the greatest presidents we've had in a long time in this country. And Kamala Harris has been a big part of this administration. They've been partners. They've delivered for the American people. So I think we’ve got to tell that story. I also am excited about this new chapter in American politics. Kamala Harris and Tim Walz I think are a wonderful complement to one another. They're real people who've lived middle class lives. They know what people in this country are going through. And – and they know how to address the problems, whether it's affordable housing, or bringing down the cost of groceries, or helping you if you’re – you're raising kids in your house or just simply fighting for fundamental rights. So there's a lot of energy, it's exciting. But I'm from Michigan so I can tell you, this is going to be a close race all the way through.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let's delve into some of the policies. The vice president laid out some of her economic policies this week. Among other things, she's proposing a ban on price gouging. Here's what Obama administration economist Jason Furman had to say. He said, quote, "This is not sensible policy. And I think the biggest hope is that it ends up being a lot of rhetoric and not reality. There's no upside here, and there is some downside." He warned, effectively, that price controls could ultimately stifle economic growth. So do you think that's the best way to bring down prices in Michigan?
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER:
Well, I think people are – are reading too much into what has been put out there. We know that Kamala Harris is going to be focused on building up more affordable housing. We know that Kamala Harris has already delivered on making sure that health care is more accessible and affordable for Americans. And we'll protect Obamacare. That's a million people who have health care in Michigan right now that Donald Trump's been trying to rip away. That only adds costs onto people's backs. And so that's why I think this opportunity economy that Vice President Harris is – is talking about and laying the broad strokes for I think shows she sees every American, she understands what people are struggling with, and wants to help you keep more money in your pocket. The biggest part of our personal budgets go toward housing, go toward health care, go toward the fundamentals. And she's got a plan on all those fronts to help more Americans be able to get a path to prosperity.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, Governor, I hear you saying that folks are reading too much into it. And yet, it is what the vice president is proposing. You have former President Trump calling the policies “communist.” The Washington Post editorial board called it a “gimmick.” Is this plan to ban price gouging any more than a gimmick, Governor?
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER:
I think it speaks to Kamala Harris's values, that she wants consumers to keep more money in their pockets. She wants hard working Americans to be able to get ahead. She wants to make sure that there is corporate responsibility. We know we have to have business growth in this country – small business growth, big business growth – for good paying jobs. But we also know that you can't gouge and – and hurt the American consumer just to pad your bottom line. And I think there's a – there’s – there’s a balance there, and I think that's what this is all about.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So you think it's smart policy, Governor?
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER:
You know, I – I think that any effort we make to keep more money in Americans’ pockets is worth walking the path, and having the conversations, and figuring out how do we make this economy work for everybody.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let's talk big picture. The campaign's only a month old. Obviously, everything that she's said in the past is starting to come into focus. When she ran in 2020, you will recall she called for banning fracking, supporting single payer health care, eliminating private health insurance. The campaign says she no longer supports those positions. The Trump campaign, though, is calling her a “chameleon.” Do you think that Vice President Harris needs to do more to explain why she has shifted on those positions?
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER:
Well, any, I think, insult from the Trump campaign is laughable, when you think about his years in office and who he fought for. He fought for himself. He's laid out nothing in terms of a vision for America. He's feeding into people's anxieties and anger. That's what he always does. But he's never done anything that makes someone's life a little bit better. In fact, his time in office we had record job loss. We saw so many deaths from Covid because it was – because he put out misinformation, denied that it was even a problem. I mean, this is a guy who – he calls other people names, but offers nothing of value to the American people when it comes to a vision or a plan to make people's lives better. And that contrast is stark. What you're going to see this week in Chicago is a bunch of happy warriors who understand the middle class, understand how we pull more people into the middle class, and make sure that every one of us can have that path to prosperity, and live our American Dream, and take care of our families.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, let me ask you about her running mate, Tim Walz, and particularly on the issue of immigration. Obviously some of his policies in his state have come into focus. He signed into law initiatives allowing undocumented immigrants to apply for driver's licenses, quality free – for free tuition at public universities, and enroll in the state's free health care program for low income residents. Would you like to see the Harris administration adopt those same policies, Governor?
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER:
Well, I could tell you, you know, Tim Walz is a pragmatic guy. He's a Midwesterner just like me. And I think some of the wonderful things he's done in Minnesota resonate with, you know, Americans in all states. We know that when you give – when you provide free breakfast and lunch for all the school kids in your state, you're saving parents $850 bucks a year per student just on the grocery bill. So I think what you see in Tim Walz is a pragmatist who wants to make sure that we are a beacon that people come to. You need to come legally. We need to secure our borders. But we also know that the great history of this country is that we were the place that people came to for an opportunity. And that’s got to be the great future of it too.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But – but – so do you – would you support the Harris administration, if she were to be elected, adopting those proposals I just laid out for you? For example, driver's licenses for those who are undocumented?
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER:
I think what we need to do is have a system – an immigration system that works, number one. We need to secure the border, we need to make sure that when people are in this country, that they have access to have some form of ID. That's really important. And I think to the spirit of those things, I think, should be a part of any vision for the – for the country, and our security, and how we bring great people into this country legally.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Let's talk about the convention coming up this week. Organizers are bracing for tens of thousands of pro-Palestinian protesters to converge in Chicago. I want you to take a look at how Vice President Harris responded to protesters at a rally in Detroit just last week. Take a look.
[BEGIN TAPE]
VICE PRES. KAMALA HARRIS:
I'm here because we believe in democracy. Everyone's voice matters, but I am speaking now. You know what? If you want Donald Trump to win, then say that. Otherwise, I'm speaking.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Governor, do you think she handled that moment well?
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER:
Yeah, I'm – I’m not going to go and second guess. It was kind of in the moment. I can tell you this: Kamala Harris cares about every person. She cares about Arab American voters, and Muslim voters and Palestinian voters. She cares about Jewish voters and – and Jewish Americans as well. You can both want peace in the region and a cessation of violence, and the return of hostages. We are a country that continually falls into these false choices. You can do both. And I think that's why we need a leader like her. She's been meeting with people in the communities, in all of these communities. Her campaign cares about everyone. And I think that's evident in her policies and the seat at the table she's making for every person. And I know Tim Walz feels the same. There is more work to do because there is a lot of pain. And I'm hopeful that the Biden administration will have something that can be announced soon. What Netanyahu's comments and what we're seeing from Hamas looks like they're making some progress. I know they're hard at work at it, and I'm – I’m still very hopeful about that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. A lot of people watching those talks quite closely, that's for sure. Let me ask you about your book. Here it is, “True Gretch.” In it you write about when you were out campaigning for governor in 2018. And when a voter asked you if you would run, quote, "as a woman," and you write that you, quote, "did run as a woman, but not only as a woman." What's notable, that was just two years after Hillary Clinton's historic presidential campaign. She made a point of reminding voters that she was trying to break the glass ceiling. Do you think that Vice President Kamala Harris should be learning in more to the historic nature of her campaign?
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER:
Well you know what, it is historic, and I think so many of us see it. We're excited about it. I remember going to Philadelphia in 2016 with my daughters in the car with me, and thinking, "My girls grow up – have grown up with eight years of an African American president, and we were on the cusp of perhaps having a female president.” And those were things I never, ever could've conceived, growing up in this country when I did. And so I do think that it is historic. And women in leadership, I think you see the results. I've got seven colleagues who are female Democratic governors doing great work in all of our states. And Kamala Harris is going to make a seat at the table for every person. And I think that's a uniquely female characteristic in leadership. And I'm excited. That is one part of – of what we're going to be talking about this week, the historic nature of it. But also she's a pragmatist. She's a great leader, and she just wants to get stuff done. And I think that's the most important thing.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Governor, I have to ask you about another part of your book, one of the more powerful parts, when you talk about the 2020 kidnapping/assassination plot against you. You write that the experience changed you. You said, quote, "It's not that I live in fear, but there's a heightened awareness now that I didn't have before. Not just as a governor, but as a person. As a mom, and as a wife." Here we are in this heated election campaign cycle, and of course there was just an assassination attempt against former President Trump. Do you fear for your own safety right now, Governor?
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER:
I don't. But I do fear for everyone around me. I've got the Michigan State Police, and they worked very closely with the FBI when that plot was – was – you know, being – when they were executing all the different steps that they were going to do in preparation for the kidnapping and – and the, you know, killing of me. I never felt personally unsafe. But I do worry about the people around me. And I think that's a very real thing that I will always take. And I write about that, but I also write some of the lesson in the book, which is, you know, you can't take all these things personally. That might surprise people, that I want to actually sit down and understand what drove these men to do this. Because I do think listening is a superpower, whether you're in the private sector or public sector, politics, or – or anything else. Understanding, seeing the humanity in someone, and – and learning I think is really important, and – and listening. So the book, I talk about ten things I've learned in my life that have helped me navigate the last six years. It's an effort to put some inspiration out into the world in a heavy time. Maybe it's just a little light reading or you get a laugh at my expense. But that's what “True Gretch” is all about, to put some leadership skills out in the world, but also some lightness too.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Finally, Governor, I have to ask you. Last week President Biden said he was not confident there would be a peaceful transfer of power in 2025 if former President Trump were to win re-election. Are you confident there will be? If he – if he were to lose re-election would you be confident that there would be a peaceful transfer of power?
GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER:
Well, I think he's already trying to stoke the, you know, suspicions of people. And I think that's an effort directly to play into his ability to discount the outcome of this upcoming election if he doesn't like the outcome. That's not how democracy works. And I think it's important that we're all vigilant. I know in Michigan we've strengthened our election laws, protecting election workers, et cetera. But I still anticipate that they will use similar tactics to what they used four years ago. And I think that we should all be very concerned about that, and what that – what that could mean for safety, for integrity of our democratic institutions, and the future of this country.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Governor Gretchen Whitmer, thank you so much for your time this morning. We really appreciate it. We will see you at the Democratic National Convention next week. And we do have a quick note to our viewers. Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer had planned to join us this morning. He unfortunately is not feeling well. We look forward to him joining us in the near future. When we come back, can former President Trump pivot his campaign to face his new opponent? Republican Senator Lindsey Graham joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. While Democrats hold their convention in Chicago, former President Trump and his running mate, Senator JD Vance, are planning a series of counter-programming events, beginning tomorrow with a Trump speech on the economy in York, Pennsylvania, while Vance campaigns in Philadelphia. Joining me now is Trump ally, Republican senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina. Senator Graham, welcome back to Meet The Press.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Thank you. Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, thank you for being here. Let's start with some of the concerns that former President Trump's allies have had about him not staying on message and the way that he is talking about his new rival, Vice President Kamala Harris. Here's what Nikki Haley had to say about that. Take a look.
[START TAPE]
NIKKI HALEY:
The campaign is not going to win talking about crowd sizes. It's not going to win talking about what race Kamala Harris is. It's not going to win talking about whether she's dumb. It’s not – you can't win on those things. I think the campaign needs to focus. That's the main thing. Look, this is a winnable election, but you need to focus.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, do you agree with Nikki Haley's assessment?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah, I don't think, I don’t look at Vice President Harris as a lunatic. I look at her as the most liberal person to ever get nominated for president in the history of the United States. She's going to the Soviet Union playbook to lower prices, called price control. She wants to eliminate private health care. She's for reparations. She's against fracking. She's for the Green New Deal. On and on and on. So I would make it about policy. A nightmare for Harris is to defend her policy choices. Every day we're not talking about her policy choices as vice president and what she would do as president is a good day for her and a bad day for us.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And of course, her campaign has said she's actually not opposed to fracking, but the broader question here--
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Right.
KRISTEN WELKER:
--Senator Graham is--
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
How can you be for the Green New Deal--wait a minute, wait a minute--how can you be for the Green New Deal and not be opposed to fracking?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, let me--
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
That's B.S. Go ahead. I'm sorry.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. Let me ask you the big picture, bottom line me here, do you think former President Trump should stop talking about Vice President Harris' race and intelligence?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah, I think my view is that me and Nikki need to go to Georgia. We're giving advice on TV to President Trump. He's got a lot of critics. He's got a lot of advisors. But Nikki Haley and DeSantis and Youngkin and all these great people we have, let's get together and actually campaign for the guy rather than just give advice. But in the advice-giving column here's what I would say: Donald Trump--President Trump can win this election. His policies are good for America, and if you have a policy debate for president he wins. Donald Trump, the provocateur, the showman, may not win this election. So, I'm looking for President Trump to show up in the last 80 days to define what he will do for our country to fix broken borders, to lower inflation. The numbers that Americans are living with under Harris/Biden are terrible: 50% increase in gas prices, mortgage rates going through the roof, grocery costs are really high. That's what I would focus on. Policy. Policy is the key to the White House.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Let's talk policy. of course, we did get new inflation numbers this week, their lowest level since 2021. But I do want to talk to you about policies. Former President Trump talking about tariffs when he was at a rally in Pennsylvania yesterday. of course, his proposal to impose tariffs on all goods coming into the United States. Take a look at what he had to say.
[START TAPE]
FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP:
A tariff is a tax on a foreign country. That's the way it is, whether you like it or not. A lot of people like to say, "Oh, it's a tax on us." No, no, no. It's a tax on a foreign country.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, do you acknowledge what almost every economist agrees to, which is that ultimately consumers bear the burden of tariffs?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
In theory, yes, but how do you get people to change their behavior when they're cheating you? You put a tariff on their products. I want to put a tariff on every country who buys oil from Iran to stop them from buying oil from a terrorist country. So, if you're Russia and you're China and you're buying oil from the the Ayatollah going around sanctions, I'd like to put a tariff on products coming into America, so you'd stop helping a terrorist. Here's Trump's policy on tariffs that I embrace without hesitation: Whatever you do to us we're going to do to you. His number one view of tariffs is reciprocal. If you put a tariff on our products, we're going to put one on yours. Let's try to eliminate tariffs to the extent we can. That makes a lot of common sense to me.
Trump was strong against China. He actually put tariffs on China's cheating practices and they changed their behavior. He threatened to put tariffs on Mexico unless they helped us with immigration, and they actually did. Tariffs as a tool to change behavior can be good.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, and just to be clear, the nonpartisan Tax Foundation determined that those tariffs that you mentioned imposed some $80 billion of new taxes on consumers. So, just to be clear, you would support his plan to impose tariffs on all goods coming into the U.S., 100% tariffs?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Just to be clear, I support his idea that whatever a country does to us on tariffs we're go to do to you. So, if you make a car in Europe and we put a 10% tariff on it, and we make a car in America and sell it to Europe, and they put a 30% tariff on our cars, we're going to 30%. That's the Trump policy. That makes eminent sense to me. So, to those who are watching what Trump may do in the second term: I think he will use tariffs to change behavior, and I think he will try to impose tariffs on people who impose tariffs on our products. Let's all go to zero, if we can.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Well, look, we are all about to watch what happens at the Democratic National Convention. I want to talk about something that happened at the Republican National Convention. The Republicans rolled out their platform and on the issue of abortion, it did not call for a national abortion ban for the first time in 40 years, Senator. You, of course, have supported a 15-week national ban on abortion. Here's what you said about the platform right before it was rolled out.
[START TAPE]
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
If we change our platform and we buy into the narrative, "Being pro-life is bad politics, being strong for the second amendment is bad politics," we're going to be net losers because the people who believe like we do are going to abandon us because we've abandoned what makes us different.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, do you still think the party's new position is a mistake?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
No, I think what they were able to do is kind of thread a needle here. They talked about the unborn child has a constitutional right to life. President Trump is a states' rights guy with exceptions for rape, incest, life of the mother. I believe most Americans want those exceptions. They're opposing any law that makes a raped woman carry a child. Like 80% of Americans are against that. But also most Americans are against late-term abortion. But he's our nominee. He believes the states' rights approach is the way to go. The platform, I'm okay with. We'll continue to have this discussion. But we're not going to win or lose based on abortion. We're going to win or lose based on can we change the policy trajectory of this country, can we lower gas prices, can we control the border, can we lower your food prices? The good news is we can, because we did. We're not going to the Soviet Union playbook to fix the problems of America. We're going to capitalism, American competition, entrepreneurship, and common sense to lower prices for America.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, would you advise Mr. Trump, if he were to be elected, to support a federal ban?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I'm going to keep being me. I think most Americans are opposed to late-term abortions. That's my--
KRISTEN WELKER:
But so is that--
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
--personal views--
KRISTEN WELKER:
--yes, Senator? Is that a yes?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
--70 percent. Well, I'm going to keep saying that there should be – at some point the baby feels pain. You know, our policy – in France they limit abortion at 14 weeks. A 15-week ban doesn't ban abortion. It protects unborn children from an excruciating death. This is a debate worth a great country to have, but this election's not going to be about abortion. It's going to be about the economy and a world on fire. And the nightmare for Kamala Harris is to have to defend her policy choices and explain to the American people why the world is not on fire. Governor Whitmer said Biden was a great president. He's been a disaster. And the disaster will continue with Harris.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, let's talk about the rest of the world, since you bring it up.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yes.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And I want to start by talking about Mr. Trump's running mate. You have expressed criticism of Senator Vance in the past, particularly on the issue of the war in Ukraine. You've called his arguments against military support “garbage.” You are just back from a trip to Ukraine. We're going to get to it in one minute. But first on this question, do you think that Senator Vance has enough foreign policy and national security experience to step in the role of president on day one, if that were to be necessary?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah, I completely support him. I think he'd be a much better choice than Walz, that JD could go into office and pursue an American-first agenda. His concern about Ukraine is we're stretched too thin. We're giving them weapons we may need to fight China. And here's my response to what he says: The best way to prevent fighting China is to be strong on Ukraine. If China sees Putin winning by force of arms, taking territory of Ukraine and getting away with it, they're going to take Taiwan. This disaster of an invasion by Putin is really biting him. NATO is stronger. He's an indicted war criminal. He's lost the entire European continent, almost, for gas customers because of this invasion. So, I want to deter China, and the best way to deter China, I think, is to get Ukraine right. And I just got back from Ukraine. I am in awe of these people. We were told Kyiv would fall in four days. Well, two and a half years later, they're taking Russian territory. They're in Russia. They've taken half of what Putin seized from the initial invasion. And we need to pour it on and help these people, when it comes to dealing with this Russian invasion, to reset the world.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Well, since you told us about your trip to Ukraine let me ask you about the Middle East very quickly. President Biden has said on ceasefire talks in Gaza, quote, that they are, "in the end game." Do you think that is accurate? Do you think they're close to getting a deal to release the hostages?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I hope and pray, but right back to Ukraine, the number one request of President Zelenskyy of me was to go to President Biden and ask him to lift the restrictions on how they can use weapons. Canada did this. We need to go all in on allowing them to use these weapons to get Putin to the negotiating table. We're not going to win in Ukraine by military conquests of Moscow or Kyiv. But we've got to get Putin to the table, and he will come to the table when the pain gets too great. Lift the restrictions, President Biden, on the weapons that have been late to get to Ukraine. As to the ceasefire, I'm hoping and praying the hostages come back, but I'll say this until I can't say it anymore. What is the day after like? If we get a ceasefire and we don't have the Arabs come in and take over the Palestinian file, we will be right back at it again. So, normalization between Saudi Arabia and Israel is the key to a permanent peace in the Mideast. And I've been working with President Biden to achieve that goal, and I still think we can.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, you take me to my final question. You've been working with President Biden for quite some time, including in the Senate. Do you think your former colleague in the Senate made the right decision by deciding not to run again, Senator Graham?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah. I think he did. I think he did it for the country and for his party. I've always enjoyed my relationship with him. We have deep and wide policy differences, but President Biden, give Ukraine the ability to fight back to end this war on favorable terms. I will help you land the biggest deal in decades in the Mideast. I will help you find a way to have Saudi Arabia and Israel normalize. I will push Israel to do what they need to on the Palestinian file, to get MBS to take over Palestine and reform the West Bank. I wish you well. Let's end on a high note here--
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right--
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
--President Biden.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator Lindsey Graham, thank you so much. When we come back –
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Thank you..
KRISTEN WELKER:
– Vice President Harris is about to face the biggest test of her political career at the convention in Chicago. The panel joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is here. NBC News Senior White House Correspondent, Kelly O'Donnell; Mary Ann Ahern, political reporter from our NBC station in the convention city of Chicago; Symone Sanders-Townsend, former Chief Spokesperson to Vice President Kamala Harris, and host of The Weekend; and Matt Gorman, Former Senior Communications Advisor to Tim Scott for America.What a great panel. Thanks for being here. Kelly, kick it off for us because, boy, this was going to be a very different convention with President Biden at the top of the ticket. Now you have Vice President Harris, her running mate, Tim Walz. Set the stakes.
KELLY O’DONNELL:
There's usually years of planning. It's all condensed into a reworked, remade process. And what you will see is sort of a love letter and a thank you note to Joe Biden. And that will be a way to honor his service, to talk about his accomplishments. And you will see the words, quotes from Joe Biden that will decorate the set and the scene. And part of that will be to make the transformation. Because implicit in the praise of Joe Biden will be his decision to step aside. And that this will be a chance to honor him. And it is different than other conventions because normally from the get-go, it's all about the nominee. Not in this case. They want to give him a moment and then show that he is in fact the one responsible for choosing Kamala Harris as his running mate and then endorsing her and making this possible. So, we will see that play out. And it will be very emotional starting Monday.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And – and the optics are, as you say Kelly, going to be so powerful. Mary Ann, I hope you're prepared to host us all. Cause –
MARY ANN AHERN:
Come on down! Deep dish is ready.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– we’re, in a few hours we’re all going to get on a plane and descend on your city. What are you going to be watching for? Set the scene and the mood in Chicago right now.
MARY ANN AHERN:
Well, I do think politically we're going to be checking to see how unified is the party?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
MARY ANN AHERN:
We saw the Republican convention, there was a lot of unity. So we see it outwardly at these rallies. But inside the convention hall, is it going to be quite that unified? Perhaps it will. But then in Chicago, of course, everyone is concerned operationally. How is this convention going to go off? There is almost the sense, we spoke to someone who said, "It feels like pre-hurricane mode." There have been some businesses that have boarded up just –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Wow.
MARY ANN AHERN:
– just concerned about the protests along the route. There of course are businesses that have told people, "Stay home. Don't work – don’t come into work. Don't come downtown." The city says it's ready. The mayor says it's ready. The governor and the police say they're ready. But when you hear that the federal judges – they've wrapped a fence around the federal courthouse, and the federal judges will stay home and work from home. As well as doctors' offices calling and saying, "Your routine appointment, perhaps you might not want to come next week."
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
MARY ANN AHERN:
So there's the politics and there's the operation. And I think after next Thursday night, Chicago is going to go, "Phew, thank you so much, but that was great."
KRISTEN WELKER:
The operation, I cannot imagine how complicated it is. Everyone is ready as Mary Ann says. Symone, is Vice President Harris ready? The biggest test of her entire political career. It's fascinating because she's been the sitting vice president. She's tried to cast herself as this shiny new object to reintroduce herself. And that's going to be her goal on Thursday.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
I mean, look, I think the Vice President does represent change for so many people because of the historic nature of her candidacy. She was the first obviously woman, first woman of color to serve as vice president. And so for that, it just feels different for people. And so she has not necessarily saddled with what an incumbent vice president, right, would be usually saddled with in a race like this. I would also note it has been a while since a sitting vice president ran for president in an active administration. So, this is something that the electorate has not experienced in a number of cycles. And she's – she’s benefiting from that. So, I think this upcoming week you're going to see, I think, it is just the flowers, if you will, for Joe Biden, but also how the Vice President's campaign and her candidate – and her eventual presidency if she is elected will build on what Joe Biden has done while also distinctly carving out a space for herself. It is a – it is a line, a tight line, to walk, but something that I think the vice president is – is very familiar with.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, meanwhile, Matt, allies of former President Trump, as I was just discussing with Lindsey Graham, say that he's struggling to figure out how to approach this new competitor that he has. He's been going after her personally, last night again, saying, "I'm much better looking than her. I'm a better looking person than Kamala." What are people saying inside Trump world? How much concern is there?
MATT GORMAN:
I mean, this dates back to – even go back to 2016 when Carly Fiorina had a moment. He really had trouble calibrating running against that. Running the playbook against Joe Biden, very different to say the least than running against a Black woman. And look, the best argument, the best attack against Kamala Harris, is not purely personal. It's not purely political – policy. It's that she doesn't have politically core principles. She doesn’t have, you know – they call her a chameleon. And I think what gave evidence to that, and why Republicans are a little bit encouraged by in the last 72 hours, is she's taking great pains through anonymous aides to walk back a lot of her positions from 2020. But then the first thing she puts her name to, it's pretty far left and gotten a lot of criticism, as you pointed out, with Jason Furman and Washington Post, et cetera.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. And of course Republicans, as you saw Lindsey Graham, have been seizing on those positions from 2020 as well. Let's zoom out, Kelly. Where are we in this race? You look at the polls and, boy, nationally in the battleground states, it's competitive again.
KELLY O’DONNELL:
It's competitive. And no one should think that it is not going to be a tight race, because it will be. And it is still the core group of six, seven, eight states that are critical. Now the movement is there. You're seeing a bump for Kamala Harris right now. The Trump side definitely believes this is still structurally favorable to President Trump. And they believe that they can do that. At the same time, Democrats are very energized. They see new momentum. And the Harris campaign is looking at, for example, the persuadable voter who is typically not involved, typically doesn't think their vote makes a difference. Can they make some inroads there? And they're also doing things like advertising on Fox News during the daytime where they think Nikki Haley voters and more moderate Republicans, they might be able to peel some of those voters off.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Symone, speaking about outreach, I mean, there's a lot of pressure on Kamala Harris to get out, to do more interviews. She hasn't done any interviews yet. Of course, there's going to be a debate. Do you think she's going to shift the strategy? She says she's going to do one after the convention.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
Well, yeah, look I think that the context here matters, and a month ago Joe Biden was the nominee. So, when – when the Vice President does sit down to an interview, she is going to have to answer questions specifically as to what Matt said. Why – what has changed? What is the difference here? Tell us in depth about her policy proposals. And that is not something that frankly one can get ready in a week and a half or two weeks in a switch. And frankly, if it was ready, I would have been concerned of if there was a shadow situation going on. Because that runs counter to everything that I know, you know, the Vice President believes about support and loyalty to the president. So, I think we'll see an interview soon right after the convention. And that makes sense to me.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Matt, quickly, and then we'll get to Mary Ann.
MATT GORMAN:
No, I mean, I think what happens when you don't address the media – we see this with Tim Walz – you allow storylines, like things whether it’s the military service, the drunk driving circumstance, to fester. JD learned that. He's doing more interviews. Kamala needs to do that too.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
I will just say she has been speaking plane side so that matters. So, I think that matters.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, she has been talking on the plane. Mary Ann, quickly, Chicago as a location, the significance.
MARY ANN AHERN:
Well, all right, New York has Broadway. L.A. has Hollywood. Chicago? We've got political conventions.
KRISTEN WELKER:
1968 when there were protests.
MARY ANN AHERN:
Yes. 1968. This is our 26th convention to host.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Oh wow that’s huge.
MARY ANN AHERN:
1968, the most infamous one, the fight was not only outside. Of course, you've seen that chaos. But it was inside, fighting over where delegates were going to sit, who was going to speak. There might still be some of that. As we know that there are 30 uncommitted delegates. Doesn't sound like a lot, but that represents 700,000 who represent Palestinian human rights. They want to know if they're going to be able to speak.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, well, everyone stick around. We're going have more with you guys. But when we come back, a look back 20 years ago to a convention speech that captured the attention of the Democratic Party and the nation. Our Meet The Press Minute is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. Former President Barack Obama will address Democrats in Chicago on Tuesday night 20 years after he delivered the keynote speech in Boston, calling for an end to divisions between red states and blue states. Then a state senator from Illinois and a rising star in his party, Mr. Obama joined Meet the Press from the convention hall ahead of his historic address,
INTERVIEWER:
Traditionally the keynoter is a governor, a senator, a congressman. You're the first state legislator in the history of the party. The New York Times said this today. "Already seen as a rising star within the party, Mr. Obama could win wide acclaim or dim his fortunes." Are you nervous?
FMR. PRES. BARACK OBAMA:
You know, I used to play basketball, and if you weren't a little nervous before the big game, you probably wouldn't play a good game. So, I think the adrenaline's going to be pumping, but I think we're going to be well prepared. I'm very happy with the speech. And what I'm going to be trying to do is tell the stories that I'm hearing on the campaign trail about workers who are being laid off and are looking for jobs that can support their families, about young women and men who want to go to college, have the will, the drive but don't have the money. If I'm as eloquent as they are when they tell me what their hopes and dreams are, then I think I'll be successful.
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, the running mates. What are voters telling us about their first impressions? We have more with the panel next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is still here. In addition to Vice President Harris, former President Trump, all eyes are on their running mates. Kelly O'Donnell, Tim Walz has his biggest night coming up this week.
KELLY O’DONNELL:
He certainly does, and top aides say they are building the plane and flying it at the same time to get ready. I've learned that – a couple of things about how they're going to roll him out. Expect coach, teacher, veteran story lines, where people from those chapters of his life will appear in person and on video. And one of the changes that we'll have is that first lady of Minnesota, Gwen Walz, will not speak in person but will narrate a video about him. That's a change-up and in part in order to make way for some of these other individuals who can talk about Coach Walz. Expect a lot of that, de-emphasizing, to a degree, some of the questions about being a veteran. Also, one of the things I was really struck by is advisors say that he is particularly comfortable playing second to a woman candidate. He is a governer. He is the executive of his state. And yet, they're already finding in chemistry and body language, they think, that he is comfortable there. And that is something they think Harris needs.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, that's fascinating because one of the big story lines obviously, Matt Gorman, that we are watching right now is what is a growing gender gap. Right now, Kamala Harris has a significant lead among women. And there is some concern that some of these past statements that have been unearthed that JD Vance has said may be hurting Donald Trump when it comes to women.
MATT GORMAN:
We talk about rollout, right? Normally, VPs get at least a week or two before the convention to define themselves, take a breath. He didn't have that luxury, right? Because you have the post-Biden debate fallout. They didn't want to step on that. Trump is shot, and he's announced that Monday at the convention, and we're rolling. And of course Biden drops out later that week. So, coming out of the convention, you talk to Vance folks, and their image and favorability were hurting a little bit. But they've hit a reset: consistently doing more media. Their image has improved. Expect him to do consistently more of that and contrast it with Walz.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Mary Ann.
MARY ANN AHERN:
Well, to borrow a page from my mentor and former moderator, Tim Russert—and also a John Carroll University alum where I am from—it was about "Florida, Florida, Florida--"
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let's see it.
MARY ANN AHERN:
--in 2000. But it is about "women, women, "women" for sure. Think about, in 2016: 53% of white women did not vote for Hillary Clinton. It's not just about race; it's also about age. Young people, energized. What about older voters? They're more reliable voters. And then finally, those soccer moms. The soccer moms are saying it's gas, grocery, daycare, you know? So, where do they line up for both of them?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well--
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
There are policies that speak to that. You think about 2016, as well, during that election in the general, there were lots of younger women who said they thought that they would have another opportunity to elect a woman president, and they decidedly did not cast ballots for Secretary Clinton. Now, I personally think that was a mistake on their part, because that ushered in Donald Trump, and here we are. So, now, are those voters, are they feeling differently about this election? I talked to some young women voters, Millennial Black women voters from North Carolina recently—Melissa Murray and I did—and they keep referring to it as "the switch" from Biden to Vice President Harris. And they said they think it's historic; they're excited for her, but they want to know more. And they are not sure yet if they're going to cast their ballot for her.
KRISTEN WELKER:
This is where the issue of abortion become so challenging quite frankly for Republicans. Matt, you and I have talked about this for a long time. Have Republicans found their footing on how to talk about that issue yet?
MATT GORMAN:
First of all, what they're doing in these referendums in states reminds me of what Republicans did in '04 around same-sex marriage: Putting referendums up in swing states. Look, absolutely there's a subset of voters who will go to the polls solely on abortion. What I'm watching now is: Does immigration also count? With the left pushing abortion, the right pushing immigration, who wins the side of that coin is going to tell us a lot about where we are in November.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Kelly, 30 seconds left.
KELLY O’DONNELL:
One of the things that Tim Walz has learned is that you can have your record tested when you're running for Congress or running for governer, and it's a whole new level when it's the national spotlight. And they're having to adjust to that, that it's not just setting the record straight. It's that those are enduring attacks.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
Tim Walz is a Nebraska native. As a native Nebraskan, I am confident in his nimbleness.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Well, fantastic conversation. Mary Ann, thank you for traveling here--
MARY ANN AHERN:
Come on. Get to Chicago with me.
KRISTEN WELKER:
We'll travel right back to you. Thank you. Before we go, a programming note. Watch live convention coverage from Chicago all this week beginning at 4:00 p.m. Eastern with Meet the Press Now, on NBC News Now and at 10:00 p.m. Eastern, on NBC News. And tune into next Sunday's broadcast. You don't want to miss it. My exclusive sitdown interview with Republican vice presidential nominee Senator JD Vance. That is all for today. Thank you so much for watching. We'll be back next week, because if it's Sunday it's Meet the Press.