KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: Trump’s tariffs. President Trump issues tariffs on America’s largest trading partners, threatening to drive up prices for American consumers. Mexico and Canada swiftly vowing to retaliate.
PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU:
Tariffs against Canada will put your jobs at risk. They will raise costs for you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Is this the start of a global trade war? Plus: searching for answers.
JENNIFER HOMENDY:
We are going to conduct a thorough investigation of this entire tragedy looking at the facts.
KRISTEN WELKER:
As federal investigators hunt for answers in the deadly plane crash over the Potomac River, President Trump shifts to blaming diversity policies, air traffic controllers and his political rivals.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
I put safety first. Obama, Biden and the Democrats put policy first.
SEC. SEAN DUFFY:
We can only accept the best and the brightest.
SEC. PETE HEGSETH:
The era of DEI is gone at the Defense Department.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And: cabinet battles.
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.
Senator, I support vaccines.
SEN. MICHAEL BENNET:
This is a job where it is life and death.
SEN JAMES LANKFORD:
Was Edward Snowden a traitor?
TULSI GABBARD:
My heart is with my commitment to our constitution.
KASH PATEL:
I would never do anything unconstitutional or unlawful.
KRISTEN WELKER:
President Trump's most controversial nominees face off on Capitol Hill, but will they all be confirmed? My guests this morning: Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem, Republican Senator Eric Schmitt of Missouri and Democratic Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona. Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Senior White House Correspondent Kelly O’Donnell, NBC News Chief Capitol Hill Correspondent Ryan Nobles, Marc Short, former director of legislative affairs to President Trump and former Democratic Congresswoman Stephanie Murphy of Florida. Welcome to Sunday. It's Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. After just two weeks in office, President Trump is waging battles across the globe and inside his own government. Overnight, he imposed tariffs on America's three largest trading partners. They are already hitting back, raising fears of a trade war. The president is also facing the first crisis of his second term in office: the worst aviation disaster in a generation, after an Army Black Hawk helicopter and American Airlines plane crashed above Washington. There were no survivors and 67 people died in the crash. On Thursday, after a moment of silence, President Trump pivoted to politics, suggesting without evidence that diversity and inclusion policies contributed to the crash.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
The FAA is actively recruiting workers who suffer severe intellectual disabilities, psychiatric problems and other mental and physical conditions under a diversity and inclusion hiring initiative spelled out on the agency's website. Can you imagine?
REPORTER:
You have, today, blamed the diversity element, but then told us that you weren't sure that the controllers made any mistake. You then said perhaps the helicopter pilots were the ones who –
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
Yeah.
REPORTER:
– made the mistake –
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
It’s all under investigation.
REPORTER:
I understand that. That's why I’m trying to figure out how you can come to the conclusion right now that diversity had something to do with this crash.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
Because I have common sense, okay? And unfortunately, a lot of people don't.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
According to the FAA and other aviation groups, all candidates seeking to become air traffic controllers and pilots have to go through years of rigorous training and testing, and meet the same exceedingly high standards. As Washington was responding to the tragedy, President Trump's three most vulnerable cabinet picks were testifying on Capitol Hill. Now, multiple sources tell NBC News there is growing concern in the White House and among Republicans that Tulsi Gabbard's nomination for director of national intelligence could be in serious trouble after her confirmation hearing in which she didn't directly answer whether Edward Snowden, who leaked government secrets, is a traitor.
[BEGIN TAPE]
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
Was he – was he a traitor at the time when he took America's secret to release them in public and then ran to China and became a Russian citizen?
TULSI GABBARD:
Senator, I'm focused on the future and how we can prevent something like this from happening again.
SEN. MICHAEL BENNET:
Was Edward Snowden a traitor to the United States of America?
TULSI GABBARD:
Senator, I will also repeat my answer. He broke the law.
SEN. MICHAEL BENNET:
Yes or no? Is Edward Snowden a traitor to the United States of America?
TULSI GABBARD:
As someone who –
SEN. MICHAEL BENNET:
– I’ll go on to my questions –
TULSI GABBARD:
– has worn our uniform in combat, I understand how critical our national security is –
SEN. MICHAEL BENNET:
Apparently, you don't.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
White House officials insist President Trump is standing by Gabbard. Meanwhile, there have been a dizzying number of actions this week, as President Trump halted federal funding and then reversed course amid a legal challenge, fired dozens of career prosecutors inside the Justice Department and forced out FBI senior executives. And officially on Saturday imposed tariffs on America's largest trading partners: Mexico, Canada and China.
[BEGIN TAPE]
KELLY O’DONNELL:
Is there anything China, Canada and Mexico can do tonight to forestall your implementation of tariffs tomorrow?
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
No.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau firing back.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU:
I want to speak directly to Americans, our closest friends and neighbors. This is a choice that yes, will harm Canadians but beyond that, it will have real consequences for you. It will raise costs for you, including food at the grocery store, gas at the pump. They will impede your access to an affordable supply of vital goods, crucial for U.S. security.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
All of this comes as the president is ramping up his deportation efforts. And joining me now from the border in Del Rio, Texas is Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem. Secretary Noem, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
Thank you. Thank you for inviting me to be with you today, Kristen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Thank you so much for being here, madam secretary. We are going to talk about the border, the deportation plan in just a moment. I do have to start by talking about the breaking news overnight, the president officially announcing the new tariffs against Canada, Mexico, and China, saying he wants those countries to do more to crack down on illegal immigration and drug trafficking. The three countries are all slamming the move. They're vowing retaliatory strikes. Is the United States now in a trade war?
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
You know, these countries have an opportunity to get onboard with the president of the United States and to partner with us to deal with illegal immigration, to take back their individuals that have been in our country illegally. We want to repatriate them home. And they can be partners. So economically, yes, they will feel – they will feel pain. They will feel what this consequences are, and we'll be able to continue to go forward with a president who's strong, who's putting America first.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You know, let me just stress that point that I made which is the president cites stopping the flow of fentanyl and undocumented migrants for reasons for these tariffs. And yet, madam secretary, Canada is not a major source of fentanyl coming into the United States. It's frankly minuscule compared to what is seized at the southern border. Why is the United States punishing Canada, one of its closest allies, more than China, where fentanyl originates?
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
Canada has some work to do as far as helping us secure our northern border. So we still know we're extremely vulnerable across that northern border, that we have people coming into our country from China, from foreign countries. We have people on the terrorist watchlist that come in over our northern border. And in fact what we have sent a message this week on is that we're not just going to enforce our southern border. We're going to put extra resources, resources at that northern border as well. So Canada needs to come to the table. They need to work with us to make sure that not only can we be good neighbors but that we can help each other's economies by getting in line and making sure that our immigration policies are followed, and that those that are dangerous criminals face consequences. The president has been very clear from the beginning that there's a new sheriff in town, that he's going to make sure he's putting Americans first, and that Canada can help us or they can get in the way, and they will face the consequences of it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
As you know, Madam Secretary, economists all across the board are warning that ultimately tariffs lead to higher prices for consumers and that these tariffs in particular could see prices increase on food, electronics, and cars. The president himself acknowledging this morning these tariffs could cause, quote, "some pain." How is this move helping President Trump fulfill his campaign promise to lower prices?
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
You know, you've seen the president take action already this week with Colombia. And you saw Colombia react in a very positive way that was good for everyone involved. Canada, Mexico, other countries have the opportunity to do exactly the same. So we have a strong leader. He has laid down exactly what he is going to do and what the consequences are. I encourage their leadership teams to get onboard and to make sure that they're not pushing up prices. If prices go up, it's because of other people's reactions to America's laws. And that's what President Trump is doing. He is making sure that we're not picking and choosing winners and losers, that the law applies equally to everybody, American citizens. It applies to those who are here illegally. And our world leaders across the country and across the world, they can help us, or they're going to face some consequences.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay, so notable, you are acknowledging it is possible that prices could, at least initially, go up. Secretary Noem, let me shift now to the southern border, where you are. Let's talk about the administration's mass deportation plans. There are a lot of questions about the announcement this week that Guantanamo Bay will be used as a detention facility for migrants. Will people held at Guantanamo have the same due process rights and access to attorneys that they have here in the United States?
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
Yes, due process will be followed and having facilities at Guantanamo Bay will be an asset to us in the fact that we'll have the capacity to continue to do there what we've always done. We've always had a presence of illegal immigrants there that have been detained. We're just building out some capacity. So we appreciate the partnership of the DOD in getting that up to the level that it needs to get to in order to facilitate this repatriation of people back to their countries. So remember that Guantanamo Bay clearly, by this president, has said that it will hold the worst of the worst, that we are going after those bad actors. This last week, I was in New York City. We were going after people that had warrants out for their arrest on murders and rapes, assaults, gun purchases, drug trafficking. In fact we had a member of TDA that was one of the ringleaders that we picked up that that week, had been trying to buy grenades. These are the types of individuals that we are targeting, we're removing from communities, and that could end up having a stay at Guantanamo Bay before they are returned home to their countries to deal with.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Is it possible, Madam Secretary, that people could be held at Guantanamo Bay indefinitely?
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
That is not the plan. The plan is to have a process that we follow that's laid out in law and make sure that we're dealing with these individuals appropriately according to what the state and the national lawsuit -- or law directs. So we will work with Congress to make sure that we're addressing our legal immigration laws and using Guantanamo Bay appropriately. But it is an asset that we have that we fully intend to utilize.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Could women, children, and families be held there at Guantanamo?
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
You know, if you look at what we are doing today of targeting the worst of the worst, we've been very clear on that. The priority of this president is to go after criminal aliens that are making our streets more dangerous.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But --
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
After that, we have final removal orders on many individuals in this country. They are the next priority, and we'll continue to work through --
KRISTEN WELKER:
But --
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
– people that are breaking the law, that are in danger to these communities, and use the detention centers that we have set up in order to facilitate this in an orderly way.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But I guess, Madam Secretary, my question, would you rule out that women, that children, that families could be held at Guantanamo Bay? Do you rule that out?
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
You know, Kristen, we're going to use the facilities that we have. I think you're well aware we have other detention facilities other places in the country. So we will utilize what we have according to what's appropriate for the individuals that we have gone out on these targeted operations with local law enforcement and task forces to make sure that they're being brought in, they're not paroled anymore --
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
– onto our streets, that we're keeping America safe, and that we're following the process for --
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
– what happens when they break the law and how they are returned to their countries. I've been extremely grateful for Secretary of State Marco Rubio's work with these countries to negotiate and use diplomacy to ensure that they are going to be taking individuals back not just from their country but surrounding countries so that we can immediately take action to return them far from the United States, which dramatically increases the likelihood that they're not going to come back.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you, I've been talking to people who are here legally and they have expressed concerns. They say they are carrying, in some cases, their documents around with them. Some of them are afraid to go to churches because ICE agents are now going into churches and schools to carry out these deportation operations. Do people who are here legally need to be carrying around paperwork? And can you guarantee that people who are here legally won't be wrongfully detained?
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
Kristen, I would say that if I've heard that expressed by people that are legal citizens of the United States, it's because the media has perpetuated that fear. The media has said that that's a possibility. There's nothing from this administration, from President Trump or from any of the law enforcement individuals in these communities, that has said that they need to walk around and be concerned about that at all. We -- the citizens of the United States are confident that finally, after four long years of having a president in the White House that ignored federal law and endangered their communities, that there's a different man in charge now. There's a man in charge who loves this country, is going to help make their communities safer. And these citizens that live here are thrilled. In fact, when I was in New York City earlier this week and --
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
– in several cities since then, the people walking by us on the streets were thanking our officers. They were thanking these investigators and those that were taking these dangerous criminals out for being there, for making sure that they could walk their kids to school with a new confidence that they could get there safely and that they could do business and have their community back.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Secretary Noem, let me ask you about the news that you made overnight, DHS officially making the decision to end Temporary Protected Status. For our audience, that means, applies to about half a million Venezuelans. They no longer have protection from deportation. These are people who were welcomed here. They did everything by the books. Why should they be subject to deportation? Just very quickly.
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
Well, the TPP program has been abused, and it doesn't have integrity right now. And folks from Venezuela that have come into this country are members of TDA. And remember, Venezuela purposely emptied out their prisons, emptied out their mental health facilities and sent them to the United States of America. So we are ending that extension of that program, adding some integrity back into it. And this administration's evaluating all of our programs to make sure they truly are something that's to the benefit of the United States, so that they're not to the benefit of criminals.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem, thank you so much. I know it's been a busy week. I know you've also been very engaged in the investigation into --
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– the horrific crash here. We appreciate your joining us. Thank you so much.
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
Yeah. Thank you so much. We're praying for their families, absolutely.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Thank you, Madam Secretary. When we come back, Republican Senator Eric Schmitt of Missouri joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. And joining me now is Republican Senator Eric Schmitt of Missouri. Senator Schmitt, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. ERIC SCHMITT:
It's great to be with you, Kristen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, it is great to have you back. I do have to start on a somber note. I wanna start by talking about this horrific plane crash here in the nation's capital. It claimed 67 lives. I know that you have been paying close attention to this investigation. President Trump, for his part came out, he held a news conference, started with a moment of silence, quickly shifted to politics, including blaming diversity programs for the crash. Do you believe that President Trump runs the risk of getting ahead of the facts by drawing conclusions that he himself says he has no evidence that diversity programs played a role?
SEN. ERIC SCHMITT:
Well, the first thing I want to say is that our thoughts and prayers are with the families. This is going to be a long road for them. As everyone knows, this is a nightmare. You know, you take a loved one to the airport, you never expect this to happen, you know, the last time you ever see that person. And so, I don’t want – we'll talk about all that, but the human tragedy here is something that's gut-wrenching for those families. My prayers, my family's prayers are with them, and I know the country wants to wrap their arms around them too. They deserve a full investigation, and I think we've learned a few things already. But as it relates specifically to the president’s comments, this is nothing new, Kristen. This idea of emphasizing DEI across the federal government has real ramifications. The president said and as you just mentioned, not related specifically, we don't know, the investigation will find out. But broadly speaking, DEI is poison. It's hurt recruiting, it's hurt hiring, it's hurt retention. The hours spent on these struggle sessions during training is hours you don't spend on safety. And that's just a fact. And it's evidenced by the fact that 1,000 people sued the air traffic control for not being hired because of their race. It's evidenced by the fact that you have also people who were fired from air traffic controls, and pilots for not taking the Covid shot. And then, you know, the government then, of course, makes it a priority to hire 87,000 IRS agents to roam across the country and harass Americans. So this has become, Kristen, an obsession. And in the commerce committee, if you paid any attention — (INAUDIBLE) that I've had, other members have had, to put these policies — (INAUDIBLE) exactly what they've done. And they try to score political points by doing it, but it has real ramifications on the workforce.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Just very quickly, I mean, we have to point out that the FAA, aviation groups, say that every pilot, every air traffic controller has to pass the same rigorous test. They have to meet exceedingly high standards. But bottom line, Senator, what I'm asking you, do you have any evidence whatsoever that diversity programs played a role in this crash? 'Cause the President said he doesn't.
SEN. ERIC SCHMITT:
Well, no one has said that. But I do think if you want to find a solution you have to be honest about the problem. And the truth is, merit has taken a backseat to quotas. That's the truth--
KRISTEN WELKER:
But Senator, we don't know that's the problem in this case–
SEN. ERIC SCHMITT:
No, no.
KRISTEN WELKER:
We don't know that that's the problem in this instance–
SEN. ERIC SCHMITT:
I know. But Kristen, Kristen we can distinguish the investigation in this case versus writ large. It's also true in our military. Pete Hegseth is going to get rid of DEI in the military. It's divisive, it's hurt recruiting. The same is true across the government. People don't want to sit through these struggle sessions with this race essentialism. And by the way, the federal government is being sued for discriminating against certain employees because of their race. So this is a fact of the matter. It's true. And the one thing people care about is they want to get from here to there safely. I don't care, and Americans don't care the race of the pilot, or somebody in the tower, or their religion, or their gender. They just want the best people, and that is what we have to get back to in the country.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Alright. Let’s, as you say, your thoughts and prayers are with the families right now. I think that certainly is something that everyone can agree with. I do want to move on--
SEN. ERIC SCHMITT:
Absolutely--
KRISTEN WELKER:
--to tariffs, this breaking news overnight. President Trump, as you know, won in part on a vow to bring down prices. He's now imposing tariffs on the country's three biggest trading partners: Mexico, Canada, and China. Can you guarantee, Senator, that these tariffs won't drive up prices?
SEN. ERIC SCHMITT:
All we have to do is look at President Trump's first four years where he institutes tariffs. We didn't see inflation. In fact, we saw record wage growth. We saw $200 billion plus go into the Treasury from those tariffs. Tariffs that help even the playing field with countries who have been ripping us off, quite frankly, for generations. China, specifically. I think the American people are tired of being ripped off. They're tired of seeing their jobs go overseas. But I think these tariffs specifically, Kristen, are meant to bring Canada and Mexico to the table for the fentanyl that is streaming into our communities. It's also worth noting, in the last four years, that the trade imbalance and our trade deficit has gone up 200% plus with Canada and up 52% with Mexico. The fact is, these countries are taking advantage of us. All along the while we've got fentanyl streaming into our country. So Mexico has a choice. They can choose to trade with the United States or continue to cozy up with the cartels. It's pretty simple.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But you talk about President Trump's first term. It's worth noting that during his first term a number of prices did go up on various goods from washing machines and tires. You mention Canada. Very little fentanyl is coming across the border from Canada. Why is the President punishing Canada more than China, the country's adversary? Do you think that's right?
SEN. ERIC SCHMITT:
Well, that number is growing, though, Kristen. I think it's important, especially in the last year--
KRISTEN WELKER:
–But it's minuscule right now. It’s miniscule right now.
SEN. ERIC SCHMITT:
But it's growing. It's growing. And when they have a porous border, and they don't seem very concerned at all-- and by the way, I heard the clip earlier, Justin Trudeau sort of lecturing Americans. My advice to him is, he probably ought to talk to the Canadian people who are about ready to throw him out of office because he's been a total disaster. So, I think we've got a president that wants to put America first and protect people. We have 100,000 people a year, Kristen, dying from fentanyl. He ran about this – on this. This is not a surprise. He talked about getting operational control of our border, he talked about tariffs and improving our standing in the world. He's doing all those things. And look no further, the best evidence of this last week. Colombia came to the table after that threat and agreed to take criminals back into their country, and illegal immigrants. So, the fact of the matter is it works. It worked the first time when he was in office. We didn't see inflation, we saw wage growth, and we saw more on-shoring of jobs back here to the United States.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I have to ask you about the confirmation hearings, of course. Last time you were here in November you told me you were a “yes” on President Trump's Cabinet nominations. Some of your Republican colleagues, this week expressing concern in the wake of Tulsi Gabbard's confirmation hearing. She's been tapped to be the Director of National Intelligence. Of course she was pressed on whether Edward Snowden is a traitor–would not answer that directly. Senator, are you still a “yes" on Tulsi Gabbard's confirmation?
SEN. ERIC SCHMITT:
I am, 100%. I think she's very well-qualified. No one's disputing that. She served our country honorably in the military. She's been a member of Congress. And I think she strikes a really important balance for a key position of civil liberties, protecting civil liberties of United States citizens, and also our national security. So, I still think she's going to get confirmed. That's what this confirmation process is all about, for people to ask tough questions. And I think she's going to do just fine next week.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, very quickly to you, how would you answer that same question? Is Edward Snowden a traitor?
ERIC SCHMITT:
Look, I think it's, it's so interesting that this lexicon that gets manipulated now. There were certain words that you needed to say during COVID. There are certain words that you need to say now. The fact of the matter is, the people who are most concerned, the most pushing this narrative are the same ones who had no issues whatsoever with the intelligence community spying on a presidential candidate that happened to be President Trump, suppressing the Hunter Biden laptop story when he was running again, and then, of course, the lawfare that included. So, I think people are tired of these games, of this sort of, “gotcha” stuff. Look, if he's, if he's been indicted, he comes back to the States, he's gonna have a trial. But this idea we tried to disqualify using these terms is ridiculous.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, and what I'm doing really, I mean, these are questions that were asked by your Republican colleagues, including Senator Langford, who asked very simply, is he a traitor? A government contractor who leaked government secrets? It's a very simple question, yes or no? We're almost out of time, though.
ERIC SCHMITT:
Sure.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Is he a traitor?
ERIC SCHMITT:
I think she was pretty clear. I think she's pretty clear.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But what do you think?
ERIC SCHMITT:
That she served this country honorably, and I think it's totally ridiculous to try to smear people who are trying to serve this country, because again, it’s sort of “gotcha.” And I will also point out a lot of people that are asking this don't like her because she's going to bring reform and she's going to curb the excesses in the worst instincts of the intelligence community at times that has gone after presidential candidates.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Alright. Senator Eric Schmitt, thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate it.
SEN. ERIC SCHMITT:
Great to be with you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, Democratic Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back, and joining me now is Democratic Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona. Senator Kelly, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. MARK KELLY:
Good morning, Kristen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It's great to have you back. I do have to start again on this tragic news about this plane crash here in the nation's capital. You, of course, have flown combat missions as a Navy pilot. You just heard my conversation with Senator Schmitt responding to what we heard from President Trump this week, that diversity programs, according to the president, may have played a role. The president acknowledging he does not have proof of that. What is your take on what we know and what you've heard?
SEN. MARK KELLY:
Well, Kristen, first, it's a tragic and sad accident. I really feel for the families on the plane, on the helicopter. It’s – you know, you know, these accidents are all often a very complicated set of things that happen sequentially. It's often not one thing that causes a major aviation accident like this. I've been involved in accident investigations, particularly, like with the – with Space Shuttle Columbia, you know, as an example, that we lost in 2003. And to say that it has to do with the person's color of their skin or their gender, I think that's just poor leadership. And especially at a time where any president is supposed to be the consoler-in-chief, and not the person that's going to try to divide us as a country, especially when you don't have the appropriate information. And he clearly does not have the information in this case. This is too early in the investigation. The NTSB is really good at this. They'll do a thorough investigation and we’ll eventually see what the cause of this accident was.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, and they are still investigating, that is for sure. Let's shift to the other big news of this morning, the president's announcement on tariffs on the country's three biggest trading partners. You heard Senator Schmitt defending the plan, you heard Secretary Noem defending the plan as well, saying ultimately this will be good for the economy, rejecting the idea that it could drive up prices. Do you think, as President Trump has argued, that tariffs ultimately will be good at stemming the flow of illegal immigration and fentanyl?
SEN. MARK KELLY:
Kristen, you’re – we're talking about two different things here. Border security is important. I represent Arizona. We're a border state. There are things that we could do to strengthen the border. You know, we've demonstrated that Democrats and Republicans can work together to come up with real policy solutions. What the president has proposed here, raising tariffs on Canada and Mexico, it's going to just do one thing. You say it may raise prices. It will raise prices for American consumers. We saw this in his first administration here in Arizona. We wound up in a trade war over certain things with China. For cotton producers and pecan farmers, they wound up – it really, really hurt their businesses. But, you know, beyond this it's going to hurt American families. They're going to see prices go up for food, for energy, for electronics, I think you mentioned that, for autos. This is not the way to handle this.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I do want to turn to the nomination process. Tulsi Gabbard in the spotlight this week. You were among those asking her a range of different questions during her confirmation hearing. She is a former Democratic lawmaker. We should let — remind folks of that. She ran for president in the Democratic Party. Notably, you have supported all but two of Mr. Trump's nominees so far, but you've expressed some real concerns about Tulsi Gabbard. Based on your conversations, do you think Tulsi Gabbard has the votes to get confirmed?
SEN. MARK KELLY:
Well, I think anybody who went into that confirmation hearing this week with questions about, you know, her background, her ability to manage 18 intelligence agencies, and also her commitment to guard our secrets – as the director of national intelligence, she is responsible for a lot. She's got to sort through a massive amount of information every single day, decide what to present to the president. I think if you had questions about her decision making and her judgment when you went into that hearing, I think anybody that sat there, like I did, or my colleagues on both sides of the aisle, probably left with more questions. I know I did. You played Senator Lankford's exchange with her over whether or not Edward Snowden was a traitor. It's a pretty simple question to ask. He actually thought he was throwing her a softball, something she could easily, you know, admit to. I mean, the definition of a traitor's pretty simple. I mean, whether or not somebody betrayed our country, and in the case of Edward Snowden, we know he did. He gave – he released a lot of classified information, top secret information, over a million documents, and he gave a lot of those to Russia, he may have given some to China. He meets the definition. I don't see why she couldn't, you know, say that. I'm kind of puzzled by it and, you know, I don't know why she wouldn't admit that. It's interesting, my friend and colleague, Eric Schmitt, wouldn't either. I don't, you know, I don’t question, you know, his judgment on this. I think this is a very political situation. But I think my Republican colleagues, many of them will still have questions about her nomination.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, well, we'll have to see how it all plays out. It will be obviously a dynamic several days as we wait to see what happens with her vote, whether she gets out of committee. Sources who are close to her say they do feel confident she will. I do want to talk about the president's mass deportation plans. You heard from Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem earlier in the broadcast. ICE operations are already being carried out across the country. You have pushed for tougher standards, tougher border policies. Do you support what you are seeing so far, the deportation plan, as it's been carried out by the president?
SEN. MARK KELLY:
Yeah, I don't. For a number of reasons. It seems to be more about intimidation of a big population of people. It's going down the road of mass deportation, which he said he would do, which would rip communities apart. These are really bad ideas. Sending - Trying to send folks back to Colombia, which we do routinely, but sending them on military airplanes, which, by the way, costs a lot more money than putting them on a chartered airline flight which we've, you know, done for decades. It's all about scaring and intimidating people. It's the same thing for Guantanamo Bay. Building a facility there is because it just sounds very frightening to a lot of folks. When you're a criminal, we need to find where you are and we need to take you into custody, and if you're not documented, you should be returned. That makes sense. I'm all about public safety and border security. But we've got to do it in a way in accordance with our values.
KRISTEN WELKER:
One more question to you, Senator. President Trump obviously signed the Laken Riley Act into law this week. Just so folks understand, that will allow law enforcement to detain and to deport undocumented immigrants who've been charged with theft-related crimes. You voted in support of this bill. I had an opportunity to interview your colleague, Senator Adam Schiff, who opposed it. He told me last week this bill is so broad the U.S., quote, "would be able to deport Dreamers for taking a tube of toothpaste." Can you guarantee this law won't be applied in a way that's overly broad?
SEN. MARK KELLY:
Well, this law is about public safety. Representing a border state, this affects Arizona I think more than other states just because of, you know, numbers, and it's where, you know, folks cross. Kristen, if you come across the border and you don't have documentation, you've already committed a crime. This is for somebody who then decides to commit a second crime. And they're taken into custody, there'll be due process involved so they could eventually – if they can prove that these are not valid charges, or they go through the court system – they could then be released. I'm not concerned about, you know, what Adam is talking about. I think, you know, very highly of Dreamers. You know, Dreamers are as American as my own two kids. I think we should be working towards a pathway to citizenship for Dreamers. I know some of my Republican colleagues feel the same way. And we're going to solve these border issues by working together, Democrats and Republicans, to come up with policy changes on border security and immigration reform.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, Senator Kelly, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it.
SEN. MARK KELLY:
Thank you, Kristen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And when we come back, a warning about the need for checks and balances in the federal government from a former attorney general. Our Meet the Press Minute is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. One of the Senate's key checks on the executive branch was back on display this week as senators grilled some of President Trump's more vulnerable Cabinet nominees like Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Back in 1961, Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy, Sr. joined Meet the Press with this defense of Congress's role in reining in the administration.
[BEGIN TAPE]
ROBERT F. KENNEDY, SR.:
I think it's terribly important to ensure that the executive branch of the government is not corrupt, and that they are efficient, that the legislative branch of the government has this ability to check on what we're doing in the executive branch of the government. So, in every instance that has been brought to our attention at the Department of Justice so far by various departments of the executive branch where this question has been raised, we have suggested and recommended that they make the information available to Congress. We will continue to do that. I don't say that there might not be an instance where executive privilege might have to be used, but I think that it's terribly important, with the executive branch of the government as powerful and strong as it is, that there be some check and balance on it.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And when we come back, will President Trump's controversial Cabinet nominees make it through the confirmation process? The panel is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is here: NBC News Senior White House Correspondent Kelly O'Donnell, NBC News Chief Capitol Hill Correspondent Ryan Nobles, former Democratic Congresswoman Stephanie Murphy of Florida, and Marc Short, former Trump Director of Legislative Affairs. Thanks to all of you for being here. Boy, there are a lot of headlines to get to. Kelly, let's start with the one that broke overnight: tariffs. The president officially moving to impose tariffs against America's three biggest trading partners. You had a very robust exchange with him on Friday in the Oval Office about a range of issues, including this one. You pressed him repeatedly: will prices go up?
KELLY O'DONNELL:
We had a lot of back and forth on this. In part, I was acting as a pool reporter, so I was in the Oval. And what was striking is this is the president's first foreign policy move, and it is one that goes after our nearest neighbors and one of our biggest global adversaries and competitors in China. And I pressed him looking for, "What does he want back? Is it a negotiating ploy? Is there a concession you're looking for?" And he kept saying no. And if you read the text of it, he talks about the national emergency we have with Canada, using that power, that authority he has to declare something that many Americans may not see. I then asked him about, "You ran wanting to reduce prices, and we know that prices are paid – the – the importers pay the tariff and then it's passed on." And he said, "There could be disruption. But people will understand." I said, "Mr. President, you said you would reduce everyday costs." So, I think there is a lot more to be understood about the real world impact. It's coming on the fly. It appeared on the fly. He sort of negotiated down from 25% to 10% on energy because we know energy matters to his overall policy, and it matters to Americans who have to fill their gas tanks.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, Ryan, pick up there. Because for so many constituents of lawmakers on Capitol Hill, this is a, you know, issue that impacts them on a day-to-day basis. What is the reaction that you're starting to see trickle in to this news that the president is imposing tariffs? And, by the way, potentially vowing to escalate them if these other countries retaliate, which they say they're going to do.
RYAN NOBLES:
Well, this is going to be a real test to see if Republicans in Congress are willing to stand up to the president, because they're going to be the first ones to hear directly from their constituents when their constituents' prices start to rise. And what we've seen, at least in the first two weeks of this administration, is that Congressional Republicans are largely out of the loop. They're finding out about these major policy proposals oftentimes when we tell them in the hallways of Congress. And so, there's little opportunity for them to react, to respond, and to encourage the president to go into a different direction because he's not consulting them on some of these big decisions. There's a long laundry list of things that I know you want to talk about, Kristen. So, we'll have to see if they're reactionary here. Do they plead with the White House to try and rein this in or refine the policy proposal a little bit? Because there's no doubt they're going to hear from their constituents first. And we're only a year and change away from the next election, and they're the ones that are going to feel the brunt of these decisions first.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Marc, as someone who was in the first Trump administration when tariffs were imposed against China, there's a difference between these round of tariffs and what we saw during the first Trump administration.
MARC SHORT:
I think this is one of the greatest differences between Trump 1.0 and Trump 2.0. In the first administration, the tariffs were largely targeted, largely toward China for national security purposes to get concessions. The first administration had economic advisors and national security advisors who believed in trade for both economic benefit and national security benefit. The team he has around him today has a very different viewpoint. It's a very mercantilist viewpoint that says, "You should be paying for access to American markets." Regardless of the reality that Americans or the importers paying that tariff or that tax, the belief is that this is a tax that should be – should be assessed to other people. I think the bigger question is going to be if there's this huge market reaction this week, if it begins to impact the economy, then I think could undermine a lot of his other parts of his agenda. And I'll say this is just the beginning. The president and his current team really believe this is the right economic policy across the board and there will be a lot more tariffs coming.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. Stephanie, let's zoom out a little bit. This week really has brought a dizzying number of headlines. It started with the administration basically announcing cuts to all federal aid. They pulled that back, so big reversal. We're kind of waiting to see how that plays out. The president, as we talked about on the program, blaming diversity programs for the crash. And then on Friday, the announcement that a number of prosecutors – career prosecutors within the FBI and DOJ being fired. What do you make of this broad set of events that we have witnessed?
STEPHANIE MURPHY:
Well, I think that the Democrats have a real opportunity here if they focus on standing up for the people. And while some of the things that you mentioned are really outrageous –firing people at the Department of Justice and at the FBI – Democrats can't be seen as fighting for power within Washington. They have to be seen fighting for the people. And so highlighting the federal funding freeze, talking about the impact of tariffs on everyday Americans, and the cost of their groceries, and all of their prices, that's going to be a winning message for Democrats. It's unfortunate, though, because this president ran and won on lowering costs for Americans, and his first sets of policies are going to actually raise costs for Americans. And Democrats are going to hang that around not just Donald Trump but also Republicans in Congress.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, we are starting to see them galvanize around this message that you talk about, Stephanie. And what's so notable about the FBI firings, Kash Patel said in his hearing there will not be retribution against anyone at the FBI. And Ryan, it comes as we have this new reporting that of all the president's nominees, it's Tulsi Gabbard who may be in real trouble. That White House officials were rattled by her inability to say that “Yes, Edward Snowden is a traitor.” Notably, today Senator Schmitt didn't want to go there, didn't want to touch it. What are you hearing about her chances of getting confirmed?
RYAN NOBLES:
So, I think of the three most controversial picks – Patel, RFK Jr., and Tulsi Gabbard – Gabbard is the one that is in the most danger. But I do think that you have to start from a place of them getting confirmed and work your way back. Because what this administration is not going to do is what they did with Matt Gaetz and pull the nominee back before they get a vote. They're going to force every single Republican senator to be accountable for this vote, and vote yes or no. And that includes Tulsi Gabbard. Now, there is a difference, though, in their approach in terms of how they're encouraging or putting pressure on these senators to vote yes or no, which a part of your reporting says, Kristen. And you know, with Pete Hegseth, it was a very clear message to Republican senators, a message sometimes sent by the president himself. At this point, we're not seeing that same level of pressure with Tulsi Gabbard. Whether or not that leads to enough senators, you know, it would require four to step out and vote no, that's something we'll probably find out this week.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. Kelly, you know how this plays out, having covered the Hill.
KELLY O'DONNELL:
It is also a test of how the president judges those on camera performances. And for Robert Kennedy Jr. and Tulsi Gabbard, the performances during the hearings did not meet the same bar that Pete Hegseth did.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And Marc, what do you make of Tulsi Gabbard, but then this morning Senator Schmitt saying, "I'm not going to touch that. That's – that’s not a real question." And yet it was a question that Republicans were asking her.
MARC SHORT:
I think a lot of Americans don't remember who Edward Snowden is or Julian Assange. But I think that – a lot of Trump supporters believe the Intelligence Committee hurt him greatly with the fake Russia investigation. But the speed of position where you can say that somebody who sold American secrets, that put Americans in uniforms lives in danger is somehow not a traitor, is an extension that goes far beyond the pale of where I think our party is today when you can't say that Julian Assange and Edward Snowden were actually traitors.
STEPHANIE MURPHY:
National security is dependent on the ability to collect intelligence and safeguard intelligence. And on both of those counts, Tulsi's hearing showed that she didn't full-throatedly believe in either the key ability to collect the intelligence or the need to safeguard it. And I think that should put some real questions in the senators’ minds.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Well, we'll have to see how it all plays out. Great conversation, guys. Thanks so much for being here. That is all for today. Thank you so much for watching. We'll be back next week, because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.