KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: raging inferno. Wind-driven wildfires in the Los Angeles area burn out of control, forcing hundreds of thousands to flee and leaving behind apocalyptic scenes.
FIRE OFFICIAL:
This could be one of the most devastating fires I've seen in California.
JACOB SOBOROFF:
What are the questions that you're hoping to answer?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
The same ones you're asking, same ones that people, when I'm in the streets, are asking, yelling about, what the hell happened?
KRISTEN WELKER:
We'll talk exclusively to California's Democratic Governor Gavin Newsom and Senator Alex Padilla. Plus: expansive agenda. With just one week before he returns to the White House, President-elect Donald Trump suggests he might use military force to take control of the Panama Canal and Greenland.
PRES.-ELECT DONALD TRUMP:
I can say this, we need them for economic security.
KRISTEN WELKER:
How far is Mr. Trump willing to go to enact his geopolitical vision? I’ll talk to Republican Senator James Lankford of Oklahoma. And: final farewell. The five living presidents make a rare appearance together at Former President Jimmy Carter’s funeral, with some extraordinary exchanges on display. Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Chief International Correspondent Keir Simmons, Politico Playbook Co-author Eugene Daniels, Stephen Hayes, editor of The Dispatch and Jennifer Palmieri, former Obama White House communications director. Welcome to Sunday. It's Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. The inauguration of Donald Trump as the 47th president is now just one week away. As the country prepares for this historic change in power, we witnessed a rare moment of unity here in Washington when all five living presidents came together to mourn the death of the 39th president, Jimmy Carter. But with just days before taking office, even more unprecedented was Friday's criminal sentencing of President-elect Trump in the New York hush money case, making him the first convicted felon to ever serve in the White House. The judge imposing a sentence of "unconditional discharge", removing any punishment of jail time or probation. Mr. Trump addressed the court before his sentence was read.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRES.-ELECT DONALD TRUMP:
This has been a very terrible experience. I think it's been a tremendous setback for New York and the New York court system.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
But the most pressing and immediate issue for the country: the deadly wildfires unfolding in Southern California, prompting President Biden to cancel his final overseas trip as president to manage the federal response to the disaster.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
Now, I speak for the American people when I say we owe you. We're with you and we’re going to make sure you get every resource you need.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
The wind-driven wildfires in the Los Angeles area have been burning out of control, wiping out entire neighborhoods, displacing hundreds of thousands, leaving billions of dollars in damage and claiming at least 16 lives.
[BEGIN TAPE]
KRISTIN CROWLEY:
It is safe to say that the Palisades fire is one of the most destructive natural disasters in the history of Los Angeles.
NATHAN HOCHMAN:
It looked apocalyptic. Not since the 1990s when Los Angeles was hit with the fires, the flood, the earthquake and the riots, have I seen such disaster occur here in our city.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
As frustrations grow and the search for answers mounts, the L.A. fire chief is now blaming budget cuts and city leaders.
[BEGIN TAPE]
REPORTER:
Did they fail you?
KRISTIN CROWLEY:
That is our job, and I tell you, that's why I'm here. So let's get us what we need so our firefighters can do their jobs.
REPORTER:
Did they fail you?
KRISTIN CROWLEY:
Yes. When a firefighter comes up to a hydrant, we expect there’s going to be water. We don’t control the water supply. Our firefighters are there to protect lives and property, and to make sure we’re properly trained and equipped.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
While President Biden has pledged to deliver federal aid to California for the next six months, some Democrats have expressed fear that President-elect Trump might withhold aid when he comes into office - a threat he's made multiple times.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRES.-ELECT DONALD TRUMP:
The water coming here is dead. And Gavin “New-scum” is going to sign those papers, and if he doesn't sign those papers, we won't give him money to put out all his fires. And if we don't give him the money to put out his fires, he's got problems. He's a lousy governor.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
This week, Mr. Trump stepped up his attacks on California's Democratic governor accusing him of failing to bring the fires under control.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRES.-ELECT DONALD TRUMP:
I think that Gavin is largely incompetent, and I think the mayor is largely incompetent, and probably both of them are just stone cold incompetent, what they've done is terrible.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
On Saturday, Governor Newsom spoke to NBC's Jacob Soboroff in an exclusive interview to Meet the Press from inside the fire zone in Altadena, California.
[BEGIN TAPE]
JACOB SOBOROFF:
Governor Gavin Newsom, welcome back to Meet the Press.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Good to be with you.
JACOB SOBOROFF:
Thank you so much for doing this.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Thank you.
JACOB SOBOROFF:
Six different wildfires raging right now. Do you have the resources to combat all these fires at this hour?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Yeah, we have 14,000 people working the line right now. We doubled the National Guard. We have 1,680 out there helping on the logistics side. I was just with folks from Mexico, 73 folks will be relieving some of our hand crews. We've got nine states that are now providing, under this EMAC system, support. So, we've got the resources. But we have more important – I've said this, we have the winds that have changed. And that allows us to be more resourceful with existing resources, particularly the aerial resources.
JACOB SOBOROFF:
In your opinion, is this or will it be the worst natural disaster in the history of the United States?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
I think it will be in terms of just the costs associated with it, in terms of the scale and scope. Don't even remind the folks in California, we had the Tubbs fire, 5,600 houses were lost. And of course, Camp Fire, we had 18,000 housing units lost and 85 people that lost their lives. Currently we're getting confirmation from the coroners, so we always have to be careful on the death toll, but it's in the 13 range, and I've got search and rescue teams out. We've got cadaver dogs out. And there's likely to be a lot more.
JACOB SOBOROFF:
What is your biggest concern over the course of the next 48 hours?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
I think is making sure the life safety focus, property focus is there at the same time we're addressing the perimeter issues. The challenge is the winds. We've got these winds coming back this evening, Sunday night. We've got peak winds on Monday. We're going to see 50-plus mile-an-hour gusts, subject to change. So now we're pre-positioning assets. And we're pre-positioning not just here in the theater, those existing five-plus fires, but now broadening that to a number of other counties and moving farther south with some of those resources in anticipation we could see some flare-ups in new places, new starts.
JACOB SOBOROFF:
You're here with us on Meet the Press to announce a new executive order. What is this executive order? What are you hoping to accomplish?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
It’s – look, we've got to be thinking three weeks, three months, three years ahead at the same time we're focusing on the immediacy, which is life safety and property. And so that's exactly what we're doing with disaster assistance, making sure people are getting their applications, addressing the issue of fraud. And that's an issue we've got to address, price gouging. So, executive orders on price gouging, recovery. We want to get inspections. Units like this, we want to get our inspection teams out here. They're already starting to get out here. We've come up with some timelines so we can get, within the next few weeks, all that done so people can get their insurance claims. We can then start the big contracts to remove the debris, to address all the hazmat issues, same time as I've got to button up the canyons here as it relates to potential flooding of a lot of atmospheric rivers. Remember, we're in the middle of winter. This is January. In fact, the day of this fire, not a stone's throw away as the crow flies, there was snow right up the mountain here, the same day as this devastating fire here in Altadena. And so all those things have to happen concurrently. But here's the big thing: I'm worried about issues of rebuilding as it relates to scarcity, as it relates to property taxes. Meaning scarcity of resources, materials, personnel. I'm worried about time to getting these projects done. And so we want to fast-track by eliminating any CEQA requirements. Any Coastal Act changes that we're making. I want to make sure when someone rebuilds that they have their old property tax assessments and that they're not increased. So all of that's been done in the executive order we just announced.
JACOB SOBOROFF:
CEQA, Governor, and the Coastal Act are both environmental regulations. And if you're going to be suspending those temporarily, are you concerned about problems that may result from the suspension of those environmental regulations and the potential abuse by developers?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Yeah, we’re not going – and within this executive order, we frame those abuses. We basically bookmark that in the context of maintaining the existing footprints. On the Coastal Act, they allow just a 10% variant, so we're going to be very mindful of that, though California leads the nation in environmental stewardship. I'm not going to give that up. But one thing I won't give into is delay. Delay is denial for people: lives, traditions, places torn apart, torn asunder. Families, schools, community centers, churches. You've seen it, the number of schools that have been lost in this community, and we've got to let people know that we have their back. We're going to be back. We're going to do it efficiently and effectively. Don't turn your back. Don't walk away because we want you to come back, rebuild, and rebuild with higher quality-building standards, more modern standards. We want to make sure that the associated costs with that are not disproportionate, especially in a middle-class community like this.
JACOB SOBOROFF:
You've also called for an independent investigation into the issues around water supply that we've seen. What are the questions that you're hoping to answer?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
The same ones you're asking. Same ones that people out on the streets are asking, yelling about, "What the hell happened? What happened to the water system?" Was it – and, by the way, was it just overwhelm? That you had so much that was used? We drew it down. Was it pipes? Was it electricity? Was it a combination of pipes, electricities, and pumps? Was that drawdown impossible because you lost seven-plus thousand structures right here anyway and every single structure we lost had a pipe that was leaking, and we would've lost that water pressure anyway? Did it contribute in any way to our inability to fight the fire? Or were 99 mile-an-hour winds determinative and there was really no firefight that could've been more meaningful? So I want – all of us want to know those answers, and I just don't want to wait because people are asking me. I want to know those facts. I want them objectively determined, and let the chips fall where they may. This is not about finger pointing.
JACOB SOBOROFF:
You say what to people who insist that these independent investigations or calls for them, are you passing the blame onto other people?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
I'm not – how could it be when we're doing an independent investigation and we just want the adjudication of the facts? As I say, it's not about finger pointing. It's about answering the questions you and everybody wants answered. And I think there's a propensity to wait to answer those questions, and people want immediacy. They want response and responsiveness. And so that's the idea.
JACOB SOBOROFF:
Ultimately here, does the buck stop with you?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Well, I mean, you're governor of California. You might as well be the mayor of California. We're all in this together. We're all better off when we're all better off, and we're all better off when we're working together to take care of people and to make sure people are supported. We're empathetic. And we're here not just in the immediacy of the crisis, but we're here after the crisis, as opposed to creating a crisis in the middle of this by trying to divide people and play political, take cheap political shots.
JACOB SOBOROFF:
Do you have faith in Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
I have absolute faith in our community. I have faith in our leaders. I have the faith of our capacity to work together.
JACOB SOBOROFF:
President-elect Trump has blamed you for this crisis. He’s called you incompetent. What's your response?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Well, I called for him to come out, take a look for himself. We want to do it in the spirit of an open hand, not a closed fist. He's the president-elect. I respect the office. We have a president of the United States that within 36 hours provided a major disaster declaration over a text. We had support from the President of the United States, Joe Biden, with 100% reimbursement, all the resources you could hope for, imagine, constant communication. I'd like to extend that to the president-elect. I don't know what he's referring to when he talks about the Delta smelt in reservoirs. The reservoirs are completely full, the state reservoirs here in Southern California. That mis- and disinformation I don't think advantages or aids any of us. Responding to Donald Trump's insults, we would spend another month. I'm very familiar with them. Every elected official that he disagrees with is very familiar with them.
JACOB SOBOROFF:
We do know though from reporting here locally that that one reservoir that serves the Palisades was not full.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
And that's exactly what triggered my desire to get the investigation to understand what was happening with that local reservoir. That was not a state system reservoir, which the president-elect was referring to as it relates to the delta smelt and somehow connecting the delta smelt to this fire, which is inexcusable because it's inaccurate. Also, incomprehensible to anyone that understands water policy in the state.
JACOB SOBOROFF:
My understanding is that you have put a call into President-elect Trump. Has he called you back?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
No, that was months ago. That was after his victory. So, I look forward to him again coming out here in the spirit of cooperation–
JACOB SOBOROFF:
Well, forgive me for interrupting you, but you did invite him to come out here. Have you had any response?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
No. No.
JACOB SOBOROFF:
Nothing.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
No.
JACOB SOBOROFF:
Multiple times Mr. Trump has threatened to withhold aid for California wildfires, both as president and now again as president-elect. Are you worried that he might actually do that?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Well, I mean, he's done it in Utah. He's done it in Michigan, did it in Puerto Rico. He did it to California back before I was even governor in 2018, until he found out folks in Orange County voted for him and then he decided to give the money. So he's been at this for years and years and years. It transcends the states, including, by the way, Georgia he threatened similarly. So that's his style. And we take it seriously to the extent that in the past it's taken a little bit more time. I've been pretty expressive about that in the context of someone threatening our first responders in terms of supporting the immediacy of their needs or recovery of our community –
JACOB SOBOROFF:
That's what you take it as, that President-elect Trump is threatening the first responders here?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Well, I mean, it's what he said. He said, "I'm not going to support the fire-fighting efforts. I'm not going to support the state of California as it relates to its emergency management," he made this pretty clear during the election, “unless they do my bidding." And, again, these are familiar terms and they're familiar to a lot of other states, not just my state. And they're familiar to not just me as governor but the previous governor of California, Governor Brown, that was battling with these same things. So you just work through these things, and I'm just blessed-- I mean this. I'm blessed on behalf of 40 million Americans that happen to live in California that Joe Biden is president of the United States and did what he did immediately. And to the extent that we can work with the same relationship and that same spirit with Donald Trump, I hope we can.
JACOB SOBOROFF:
Last time I saw you in the Palisades on Wednesday, right after this fire started, you were on the phone at the side of the road trying to reach President Biden. Subsequent to that, he pledged 100% of the disaster recovery relief for the next six months. Is that enough?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Well, it's significant. In fact, when I was on the phone – you saw me on the phone – I was trying to get the satellite phone to work. I asked for 90%, and he said, "No, I'm going to do 100%." It was a big deal. 180 days is a big deal. But he also had just provided the major disaster declaration, and we did the press conference the next day. And that is profoundly significant because that's individual assistance. DisasterAssistance.gov. People should go to DisasterAssistance.gov and start filling out applications, get that immediate relief, and then get longer and medium-term relief. But, no, he stepped up in a way that an American president should step up, and I couldn't be more proud of him. That's not a political statement. That's not because I'm a Democrat saying that. That's because I'm a human being trying to help other human beings in the most extreme elements, the most difficult time in their life.
JACOB SOBOROFF:
Some of these Californians in homes that burnt like this were thrown off of their policies, their fire policies –
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
Correct.
JACOB SOBOROFF:
Before this fire season.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
That's right.
JACOB SOBOROFF:
What do you say to those Californians?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
No, it breaks your heart. I mean, this is an issue-- and, by the way, persists in California because of the acuity of the new realities. Hot's getting hotter. Dry's getting drier. Wet's getting wetter. These atmospheric rivers, all the flooding that we've experienced in California but also across the rest of the United States. You're seeing insurance rates through the roof, et cetera. But here's the point. We've been proactive in trying to stabilize that market. That was the executive order a year and a half ago. Insurance commissioner has been moving in that direction. I'll give you a proof point of some of the success of that. Just a week ago, a major insurer announced they were reinsuring in Paradise, California, where the Camp Fire was, because people repopulated. Farmers said they were coming back. So we are very mindful of that. And that's why the FAIR Plan is that backup plan. But I'm also mindful of this. As someone on the FAIR Plan, intimately aware of how it works, it's not the kind of insurance that you get on the private sector, meaning you're not getting as much in terms of that protection.
JACOB SOBOROFF:
Over the course of the next several years, Los Angeles will be host to the World Cup, and then the Super Bowl, and then the Olympics. With this rebuilding effort needing to take place, is L.A. going to be ready for all those global events?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
My humble position, and it's not just being naively optimistic, that only reinforces the imperative in moving quickly, doing it in the spirit of collaboration and cooperation. President of the United States, Donald Trump, to his credit, was helpful in getting the Olympics to the United States of America, to get it down here in L.A. We thank him for that. This is an opportunity for him to shine, for this country to shine, for California and this community to shine, the opportunity with all of that and all that opportunity and the pride and spirit that comes from not just hosting those three iconic games and venues, but also the opportunity, I think, to rebuild at the same time. And that's why we're already organizing a Marshall Plan. We already have a team looking at reimagining L.A. 2.0, and we are making sure everyone's included, not just the folks on the coast, people here that were ravaged by this disaster.
JACOB SOBOROFF:
You just said you're organizing a Marshall Plan for the rebuilding of California. What is that Marshall Plan?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
For this region.
JACOB SOBOROFF:
Tell us about this Marshall Plan.
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM:
We're just starting to lay out. I mean, we're still fighting these fires, so we're already talking to city leaders. We're already talking to civic leaders. We're already talking to business leaders, with nonprofits. We're talking to labor leaders. We're starting to organize how we can put together a collection of individuals on philanthropy for recovery. How we can organize the region. How we can make sure that we are seeking federal assistance for the Olympics more broadly, but also federal assistance for the recovery efforts. And how we can galvanize the community with folks that love this community to really develop a mindset so that, at scale, we're dealing with the scope of this tragedy and responding to it at scale with efficiency – like the executive order I talked about – time value of delivering projects, addressing building codes, addressing permitting issues, and moving forward to rebuilding and being more resilient.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And Jacob Soboroff joins me now, standing in front of more of the wreckage and devastation in California. Jacob, you did just a tremendous job with that interview with Governor Newsom. And I know you had a chance to talk to him even more after that interview. And you got new details on the timeline, how long he thinks it will take just to remove the debris before the rebuilding can even begin.
JACOB SOBOROFF:
After the interview, Kristen, Governor Newsom and I walked a little bit through that neighborhood in Altadena. We visited with the National Guard troops that he has called up and deployed across Southern California. And remember, there are effectively tens of thousands of instantly homeless people in Southern California. And the question on everyone's mind is: how long will it take to rebuild. And the beginning of that rebuilding process is just the sheer environmental remediation, the mitigation, the removal of the debris from these neighborhoods. He said that alone could take nine months to a year before any of the rebuilding even begins. And on top of all that, Kristen, just in the next couple of hours and next couple of days we have the recurring threat of wildfires. The wind is starting to pick up again this morning. It is forecasted to increase over the course of the next couple of days. This is not over yet.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, Jacob, this, I know, is personal for you. This is your home state, where you grew up. Your reporting has just been fantastic. We'll continue to follow you throughout the week. Thank you so much for bringing us that interview.
JACOB SOBOROFF:
Thank you, Kristen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
We really appreciate it. And to help those who have been impacted by the fires in California please consider giving to organizations like these. When we come back, Democratic Senator Alex Padilla of California joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. Joining me now is Democratic Senator Alex Padilla of California. Senator Padilla, welcome to Meet the Press.
SEN. ALEX PADILLA:
Good morning, Kristen. Thank you for having me.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, thank you for being here. Our thoughts are with all of you in California during this devastating time. We appreciate your perspective this morning. I want to start by asking you about the L.A. city fire chief, who has said that the city has failed her. That the Mayor's budget cuts have made it harder for the fire department to fight the fire. Do you believe that budget cuts have played a role in the challenges that firefighters have faced?
SEN. ALEX PADILLA:
Look, on the one hand, yes; on the one hand, no. We can always use more resources. That's just, you know, public safety in general. But because every city, every county has different capacity and capabilities, we have this federally led mutual aid system. You know, when the Governor in the previous segment talked about the number of personnel fighting these fires, it is buttressed by crews coming in from Central California, Northern California, Oregon, Washington, New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado, Utah. I understand crews coming in from North and South Dakota are expected today. Idaho is helping out. So collectively, National Guard, firefighters, et cetera, we're putting as many resources on these fires as possible.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, do you believe you have the resources that you need right now to fight these fires? Because firefighters are still in the thick of it, particularly with those winds expected to kick up, as you just heard the Governor say.
SEN. ALEX PADILLA:
Yeah. Well, collectively we're putting all the resources we can towards fighting these fires. And as not just the Governor, others have reminded us, the biggest factor in the next 24, 48 hours, hopefully not longer than that, are the wind conditions. You know, now the whole world knows what we mean when we say red flag warnings. When it's dry, when it's warm, and the winds kick up, regardless of the cause of a fire, it has the chance to spread much more quickly. And it's exactly what we've seen, both in the Eaton Canyon areas, Altadena, Pasadena, Sierra Madre, as well as the Palisades, of course, and the other fires that are also still burning within the region.
KRISTEN WELKER:
As Jacob was just discussing with the Governor, there is a lot of frustration with state and local officials. Let me ask you bluntly, Senator, do you have faith in Governor Gavin Newsom? Do you have faith in Mayor Karen Bass?
SEN. ALEX PADILLA:
Look, I do have faith in our leaders. And not just as individuals, but especially because we after disaster, after disaster, after disaster have gotten really good at working together. And that's not just the elected officials. Let me give even more credit to the first responders, to the emergency response personnel, police officers, firefighters. When you have federal agencies, state agencies, county and city agencies all collaborating to work very effectively, very efficiently, that's how we're able to protect lives, and save lives, and protect properties, and respond to whether it's fires in this particular case, it could be atmospheric rivers and floods, and other disasters we've had here in California. But most importantly, let me send a message to all the families out there. More than 100,000 families displaced. The families of those who have perished in these fires, our hearts are with you. And the perspective of these families are what's driving the urgency of the efforts to put these fires out as quickly as possible, and begin the planning process of providing the temporary assistance, shelter, and otherwise to impacted families. And the planning that we know is going to happen for the recovery and rebuilding of these neighborhoods. As I've had a chance to tour these communities, every house is a home, every home is a family. We can and we will rebuild.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, to that point, President Biden has pledged that the federal government will pay for the efforts to rebuild 100% for the next six months. Are you confident that the incoming administration, the new Congress will follow through on that pledge, Senator?
SEN. ALEX PADILLA:
Yeah, look, first of all, God bless and a big thank you to President Joe Biden. Consider this, Kristen, he wasn't in the situation room when this happened; he was in the situation. And his presence here in Los Angeles I think helped that major disaster declaration be approved in record time. And I pray and I hope that not just President Trump, but my colleagues in Congress continue to support these efforts. I've already been in touch not just with Democratic leadership, Senator Schumer, Senator Murray, who chairs the Appropriations Committee, but Senator Collins from Maine who's the lead appropriator on the Republican side, Senator Cassidy from Louisiana who's no stranger to disasters. Just as Californians have been there for other regions of the country in their times of crisis, it's time for the country to unite behind California. And that includes incoming President Trump. You know, at the end of the campaign he talked about uniting the country. Here's his first opportunity. And he can begin by accepting the invitation to come and tour the impacted areas, just as he toured areas impacted by wildfires during his first term.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you about something that happened this week in Washington, a crucial vote on the Laken Riley Act. Let me just explain for our viewers what that is. It's a bill that would allow federal law enforcement to detain undocumented migrants who commit theft-related crimes. More of your fellow Democrats supported this bill, this go-around, this vote. Do you support, will you vote yes on the Laken Riley Act?
SEN. ALEX PADILLA:
Yeah. So my understanding is there was a procedural vote to allow the measure to come up in the Senate for purposes of allowing a debate, allowing us to offer amendments. The bill currently, as written, is first of all, it's not immigration policy. Second of all, it is already in law that those who commit violent crimes can and should be detained and are in that deportation process.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Are you a yes or a no, senator?
SEN. ALEX PADILLA:
But the way this bill is written --
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, just to be clear, I just want to understand what you're saying. Are you a yes or a no?
SEN. ALEX PADILLA:
As currently written I'm a no, because it opens the doors for people simply being charged, without a conviction, to be detained and deported. That includes minors, that includes Dreamers, that's shoplifting a pack of bubble gum. There has to be more of a focus on a piece of legislation like this.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator Padilla, our thoughts are with everyone who is suffering right now in California. Thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. And when we come back, Republican Senator James Lankford of Oklahoma joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. Joining me now is Republican Senator James Lankford of Oklahoma. Senator Lankford, welcome back to Meet The Press.
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
Thanks. Good to see you again.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It's great to have you back on an important Sunday. You just heard from Governor Gavin Newsom. You heard from Senator Padilla. Are you confident that this new Congress will continue to fund disaster relief for California for as long as is needed, senator?
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
Yes is the simple answer to that. I would say that our hearts go out. We've been praying for the people of California. We've all, as a nation, and quite frankly globally, watched what's happened in Los Angeles. All of us have concerns there. When Republicans met privately with President Trump just about three days ago, President Trump opened his statement to everybody saying, "We're all watching what's happening in the fires. We're all grieving about that. We're all paying attention. And we know something needs to be done there." So everyone is very focused on this.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. Let me ask you about this incoming administration. There will be confirmation hearings. They begin this week. Let me ask you about Tulsi Gabbard, Mr. Trump's pick for director of national intelligence. You have said that she needs to clarify where she stands on 702 and just to let our audience know what that is, that's a critical intelligence gathering authority. She consistently opposed it when she was in Congress. But here's what she said this week. She came out in support saying, quote, "If confirmed as DNI, I will uphold Americans Fourth Amendment rights while maintaining vital national security tools like Section 702 to ensure the safety and freedom of the American people." Are Mrs. Gabbard's assurances enough for you, senator? Are you now a yes on her?
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
Yeah, I am. And that – that was a very important piece for me. Obviously she voted against 702 authority. And just to clarify that, that authority is for actually trying to be able to track terrorists overseas. That has nothing to do with American citizens or anything that's happening in the United States. It is if someone's planning to attack us overseas, we find out about that. We should be able to act on that. That's what 702 authority allows us to be able to do. It is to be able to track international individuals overseas before they come and actually attack us. She voted against that in the House when she was a member of the House of Representatives and then said she wanted changes. She's now coming in and saying, "Those changes have been done." Because even since she was in Congress, there have been quite a few changes that we've made in Congress to make sure we're protecting the civil rights of Americans. But when she came out and said, "Hey, this is something I'm gonna stand for," that's part of the role of the office of national intelligence is to make sure we're actually watching for people to come attack us and stopping them before they do.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. So significant news made here. You are now a yes on Tulsi Gabbard. Let me ask you about a top agenda item for President-elect Trump: his mass deportation policy. In my one-on-one interview with him he said that is agenda item number one. He said he wants to deport everyone who is here illegally. I want to ask you, senator, do you agree with that? Is that your plan to deport everyone who's here illegally?
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
Well, to be very clear, if someone has violated the law in the United States, there should be consequences for violating the law in the United States. I'm not going to come out and say, "Hey, if someone breaks the law, we're just going to look the other way." That's not who we are. We are a nation of laws. If we have a law, we should enforce that law. That's who we are as Americans. And I think it's one of – one of the things the president made very clear when he sat down with you in that great interview was, "We have to. This – this is the law of the United States. We're going to do that." He also made very clear he's going to go after people that have committed additional crimes here in the United States. He's going to go after people that a court has already said to them they have to be removed. We have over a million people in the United States right now that a federal court has already looked at their case, examined the facts, and said, "No, you have what's called a final order of removal. You have to leave the country," but they haven't left the country. That should be the first priority for those individuals. There are some that are still working through their asylum cases and such. Let them work through their cases on that. But once a court has said you have to leave, we can't just ignore a court order.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, you have in the past talked about how logistically challenging this is. Obviously it's expensive. It could cost –
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
Oh, yes.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– tens of billions of dollars every single year. Do you think it's realistic to remove all of the people who are here illegally, more than 11 million people by some estimates?
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
Yes. So there's just a perception that somehow there's going to be a gathering of buses out in the city square. And everybody's going to have to load up and go out. That's just not how it happens in real life. This will take a long time. This will take some dollars. But again, if somebody's committed a criminal act, if somebody has a final order of removal from a court, we should not just ignore that. And to say the court rulings don't count, that we're going to ignore what the court says, when a federal court says this has to be done, we are a nation of laws. We should actually enforce that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
If you'll permit me, I do have a little bit of a process question. But it's the big debate on Capitol Hill right now. Because obviously President-elect Trump wants to address the border. He wants to get tax cuts –
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– passed. He's proposed a slate of them including extending the Trump-era tax cuts. Do you think this should be addressed in one big bill as President-elect Trump has said is his preference, House Speaker Mike Johnson has said that's his preference, or two bills which Majority Leader Thune, for example, has said might be more realistic?
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
Well, I would say whether we do it in one bill or two bills, we need to get this done. I know there's a lot of this buzz in Washington D.C. about, "What's the process of how things are going to get done?" I would say probably no one outside of Washington D.C. cares one way or the other. The issues are still the same. We've got to be able to get our taxes balanced out. We're not going to have a $4 trillion tax increase at the end of this year. So we have a ticking time bomb on taxes. Let's get that resolved. We have to deal with border security issues. That's what the American people demanded in their election. That was very clear. The American people want to be able to get our economy back on track. That's a lot of the energy issues that are out there on that. They want greater government efficiency. We have $2 trillion in overspending this last year. Everyone knows you can't do that. So people are looking for, "How do we get more efficiency? How do we actually get our economy back on track? How do we actually enforce existing laws? And how do we make sure our tax policy is actually fair?"
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
Those things we need to do in the first five or six months –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
– whether it's one bill or two I don't think will matter to the American people. Let's just get it done.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, finally I have to get your reaction to comments this week. President-elect Trump not ruling out using military force to take Greenland, which is a territory of Denmark which is a NATO ally. Do you support that type of action against a NATO ally?
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
The United States is not going to invade another country. That's not who we are. The – the president speaks very boldly on a lot of things. We've seen this over how he's done negotiations, whether it be for real estate or how he served as a great president just four years ago. He makes a bold statement. He gets everyone to the table. You sit down to be able to talk it out. He's done with Canada, with Mexico, with Panama. He's going to continue to do this. Quite frankly the president's been very clear. He is the president that kept American troops out of war. He is not looking to be able to go start a war to go expand American troops. But he does want to be able to protect America's national security. And part of that's our economic security and our future.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, very quickly, because we're just about out of time. He did propose tariffs on Denmark. Would you support that?
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
Well, he's actually proposed tariffs on just about everybody this morning. He said, "We're going to have fair trade across the entire world. We're going to make sure that America and American workers are not abused." And quite frankly what he's looking for and what he's said over and over again is: He wants companies around the world that sell to the United States to come build it in the United States. So he wants to open up the country to more jobs, more economic activity. So he's laid a marker out there internationally saying, "We're not going to be taken advantage of anymore."
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator Lankford, always great to have you. Thank you so much for joining the program. We really appreciate it.
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD:
You bet. Good to see you again.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You too. And when we come back, the fight over who controls this vital shipping channel for global trade. Our Meet The Press minute is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. It's been close to 50 years since the United States signed control of the Panama Canal over to Panama. But as we saw this week, President-elect Trump now wants to reverse that, and wouldn't rule out taking it by force. In 1976, negotiations between both countries were ongoing, and they emerged as a flash point in the GOP primary. President Gerald Ford supported the transfer, but his challenger, Ronald Reagan, criticized his position as irresponsible. Senator Barry Goldwater weighed in on Meet the Press.
[BEGIN TAPE]
SEN. BARRY GOLDWATER:
I have to support Ford's position on it, and I think Reagan would too if he knew more about it. As I say, I'm as completely opposed to giving that canal away as anyone. I also know from personal visits to that part of the world, and my personal friendship with people in that part of the world, that unless the United States begins to bend a little bit -- now, this could be a gradual little more economic control, a gradual little less military occupation -- that we're going to be faced with the problem of guerrilla warfare, whether we like it or not. And the question is, the question I ask anyone who comes to me on the subject, "Are you willing to go to war over the Panama?"
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
President Jimmy Carter signed the treaty a year later. He was laid to rest this week in his hometown of Plains, Georgia. When we come back, the final days of the Biden presidency, as Donald Trump prepares to take office. The panel is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is here: NBC News Chief International Correspondent Keir Simmons, Eugene Daniels, co-author of Politico Playbook, Stephen Hayes, editor of The Dispatch, and Jen Palmieri, former Obama White House Communications Director. Thanks to all of you for being here. Keir, thank you for being here –
KEIR SIMMONS:
A pleasure.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– and traveling in. We're thrilled to have you. Eugene, let me start with you. We are about a week out from President-elect Trump being sworn into office. Take us inside your conversations. How do you think Washington's preparing for this moment?
EUGENE DANIELS:
They're kind of girding on both sides of the aisle, right? They're prepping. On one hand, they kind of know how he operates. Even in your interview with Senator Lankford, he kind of talked about how Trump gets people to the negotiating table by saying some things that folks might think are – are outlandish, right? Now, so they figured out some of the ways that he operates. But for Democrats, they don't really fully know what it's like to oppose him in this current climate, right? Do they help govern still as – you know, as a party that thinks that that's supposed to be happening? Or do they let Republicans kind of fail in the House over and over and over again, and just let that go. For Republicans, this is – everything is going to be seen in a lens over the next four years of this is a party – this is Trump's party, period. Four years ago, you had a Republican party that expected post-Trump there would be something else. We'd get back to the Bush party, we'd get back to the party of Reagan. That's not the case. So every decision they make moving forward is going to be in that lens.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, the gut check of where we are as a country was on display this week in various forms. When Vice President Kamala Harris certified her own election loss to President-elect Trump. Jimmy Carter's funeral, we were all talking about this in the commercial break, these extraordinary scenes. Trump shaking Mike Pence's hands. Obama and Trump sharing a laugh, Stephen Hayes. I mean, this is a moment of bipartisanship that it seems to be from a bygone era, almost.
STEPHEN HAYES:
Well, it is from a bygone era actually. Look, I mean, that was an interesting moment. Certainly there were about 50 things that we saw that we could've talked –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
STEPHEN HAYES:
– about for hours. But I think Donald Trump is at his absolute strongest right at this moment. Look at the – the fight that we were expecting. House Representatives, his pick, Speaker Mike Johnson, wasn't really a fight. Senate Republicans loving him right now. Most of his nominees are on track. You have corporate America sort of bending the knee to Donald Trump. His legal problems seem to be over. This is peak Donald Trump right now. But he could have a very short honeymoon. This is somebody who has campaigned on fixing things with the snap of a finger. So he comes in, he says he's going to end the Ukraine war on day one. That's not going to happen. He's going to fix grocery prices. He's already backtracking on that. There are all sorts of things that I think have set him up for – for some trouble if he doesn't notch accomplishments real early in this first – in this first couple weeks.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. And Keir, the world is watching so closely –
KEIR SIMMONS:
Sure is.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You just heard me talk to Senator Lankford –
KEIR SIMMONS:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– about President-elect Trump saying that, in fact, he's not ruling out taking Greenland by military force, potentially the Panama Canal. And you actually think a lot of this has to do with China. Talk a little bit about that and this world order that we're watching now.
KEIR SIMMONS:
Oh, no – no question. To Eugene's point about Democrats who thought they kind of had it figured out, European leaders thought they had Trump figured out. This week, they were spun out. And I don't think they're going to be reassured to hear that he threatened tariffs on – on everybody. Now, there are – there are diplomats who have told me that his unpredictability, his bombast is helping negotiations in the Middle East, for example. But look, this is the prologue this week, right, and – and next week. President-elect Trump will try to impose his will on the world. The world will attempt to impose its will on him. President Putin does not have to agree to end his aggression towards Ukraine. Ayatollah Khamenei of Iran can decide to move towards nuclear weapons. We've seen in California, you know, events, events, events affect politics. And to your point about China. China is – is the elephant in the – the room, right? It is the big struggle. It is the one country with the capability and the intent to try to transform the international order. And all of this bombast, underneath the question has to be: is President-elect Trump able to shift the attention to that?
JENNIFER PALMIERI:
Yeah. And that's the thing with the American presidents. They have a lot of power, very little control.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. And – and Jen –
JENNIFER PALMIERI:
Yeah. And he wants control.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– you know, he wants control. And what's interesting, all of this comes as President Biden, who was dogged by what is happening abroad in his reelection efforts, says if he stayed in the race he actually thinks he could've beaten President Trump –
JENNIFER PALMIERI:
Yeah. Well, every politician's going to say that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
He has to say that. He has to say that, right. He has to say that.
JENNIFER PALMIERI:
Show me the one who doesn’t.
KRISTEN WELKER:
He also said, though, by the way, Kamala Harris, yes, he thinks she should run again. I thought that was fascinating. She hasn't made up her mind yet. We're watching closely. What did you make of what we heard from him?
JENNIFER PALMIERI:
I mean, I think – I mean, I think just that. You know, it is that, you know, every politician's going to say, "Of course I would run." He's going to be supportive of his vice president, as he was, you know, all throughout – all throughout her campaign. But I think that for Democrats, you know, as Stephen said, you know, they – they're going to play their game. Like, they understand that Trump has set a very high bar for himself, right? So it's, like, less resistance this time and more about accountability. So he said, "I am going to lower prices." He said, "America's going to have the greatest economy in the history of the world." Okay, great. So, look at what Leader Jeffries said this week. We talked about, "I won’t – I'm not going to talk about Greenland. How is that going to lower prices?" Right? You know, there is every opportunity – I think Jeffries is particularly good at this, and the House Dems are really focused on accountability – is like how is – anything that comes up it's like, "How is that going to help? Right now the middle class is getting smaller and prices are going up, and that's been happening for decades." They're not just pushing back on Trump. They're telling a larger story to the American people about what's going on with the economy. And it's like, play your game. He's going to do what he's going to do. You can react to it in real time when you need to. But really, it's all about saying, "He's not accomplishing," or – or maybe he is. But like, it's all about, "What are you doing to lower prices, help the middle class grow?"
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. And Eugene, on Wednesday, President Biden's going to be delivering his farewell address.
EUGENE DANIELS:
Right.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Undoubtedly he's going to be talking about his record on the economy. He's going to try to argue that he had a strong record. What are you going to be watching for in that speech?
EUGENE DANIELS:
I mean, both in that speech and on Monday, he's going to the State Department and he'll be doing kind of a foreign policy speech, right? I think one: it's interesting that he's doing it in the Oval Office. He's not doing his final speech like Obama did, somewhere big. I think what I'm looking for is, does he understand the things – the failures of the – of his time? And what does that actually look like when you say that "I did a good job."
KRISTEN WELKER:
Keir, what are you going to be watching for in his foreign policy speech that Eugene just talked about?
KEIR SIMMONS:
Well, he started strong, right? But I feel like the world – modern world, if you like, is always disappointed with the American president, until you get a few decades later and it gets reassessed. And – and –
KRISTEN WELKER:
As we just saw with Jimmy Carter. Good point.
KEIR SIMMONS:
Right. And neither the Trump administration or the Biden administration is going to like this, but internationally at least, their legacies are intertwined, actually. So how – how has – as I mentioned, how has the U.S. confronted China is going to be a question that’s going to be about the Biden administration, and the Trump administration before the Biden administration, and the Trump administration now that we’re entering.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Just with a minute left, Jen, I'm told these speeches are going to be in the spirit of the farewell addresses that was delivered by former Presidents Clinton, George Bush, and Barack Obama. This is a big moment for him. He gets to say the final word, in some ways, of how he wants to be remembered.
JENNIFER PALMIERI:
Right. Because he has – I mean, like, he's leaving office with the economy – the economy’s the strongest in the world, a remarkable record of accomplishment that's going to help the country for decades. Trump won, you know, and I think how – but he can lay out what that was. And how, I think he's got a good case to make about restoring American leadership in the world. And –
KEIR SIMMONS:
Securing those – those allies, right?
JENNIFER PALMIERI:
Those allies.
KEIR SIMMONS:
That has had an impact.
STEPHEN HAYES:
He's going to try to shape his legacy in these speeches. But let's be clear, I think this was a failed presidency. And this is somebody, if you look at his own inaugural address, failed on his own terms, and is marked by a scandal where he deceived the American people about his mental acuity for years.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, guys. Thank you. Great conversations. Thanks again for being here, Keir. We appreciate it. As a reminder, to help those who've been impacted by the fires in California, please consider giving to organizations like these on your screen. That is all for today. Thank you so much for watching. We'll be back next week, because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.