KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: historic agreement. Israel and Hamas agree to a temporary cease-fire and hostage deal just days before Donald Trump returns to the White House.
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
I've worked in foreign policy for decades. This is one of the toughest negotiations I've ever experienced.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Who deserves the credit for securing the deal, and will the truce hold? Plus: day one. Donald Trump’s wide-ranging plans for his first day in office, including saving TikTok, pardons for January 6th defendants, and mass deportations.
PRES.-ELECT DONALD TRUMP:
On day one, I will launch the largest deportation program in American history.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Will he follow through on his promises? And: Biden’s warning. As he exits the oval office, President Biden warns of unchecked power from billionaire technology executives.
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
An oligarchy is taking shape in America, of extreme wealth, power, and influence, that literally threatens our entire democracy.
KRISTEN WELKER:
My exclusive guests this morning: Speaker of the House Mike Johnson and House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries. Plus: A dreamer’s legacy. Our “Meet the Moment” conversation with Martin Luther King III on the deep divisions in our politics.
KRISTEN WELKER:
What do you think your father would make of this moment?
MARTIN LUTHER KING III:
He'd be quite disappointed.
KRISTEN WELKER
Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Chief White House Correspondent Peter Alexander, Amna Nawaz, Co-anchor of PBS NewsHour, Mike Dubke, former Trump White House Communications Director and former Biden White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki. Welcome to Sunday. It's Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, it’s Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. Tomorrow, a new chapter in our nation's history gets underway. Donald Trump will be sworn in as the 47th president of the United States, making him the second president ever to serve nonconsecutive terms.President-elect Trump telling me in an exclusive phone interview on Saturday he is ready for that moment, including his decision to move the inauguration indoors. He said while it was a hard decision, it was the right one adding: "I think it would have been dangerous for a lot of people." He will take the oath of office and deliver his inaugural address from the Capitol Rotunda, which last happened for Ronald Reagan's second inauguration in 1985.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRES. RONALD REAGAN:
We stand again at the steps of this symbol of our democracy. Or we would have been standing at the steps if it hadn’t gotten so cold.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
President-elect Trump also told me in that call the theme of his inaugural address will be unity, strength and what he calls "fairness", saying, quote, “we went through hell for four years with these people. And so, you know, something has to be done about it." Former Presidents Obama, Bush and Clinton will be at the ceremony, but will not attend Mr. Trump's traditional inaugural lunch. Among those not attending tomorrow: former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and former First Lady Michelle Obama. Ahead of the inauguration, a parade of Trump cabinet picks is making the rounds on Capitol Hill, as the President-elect prepares to sign what he told me will be a "record-setting" number of executive actions.
[BEGIN TAPE]
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
On day one, I will launch the largest deportation program in American history.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You promised to end birthright citizenship on day one.
PRES.-ELECT DONALD TRUMP:
Correct.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Is that still your plan?
PRES.-ELECT DONALD TRUMP:
Yeah. Absolutely.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
Starting on day one of my new administration. We will end inflation, and we will make America affordable again.
PRES.-ELECT TRUMP:
I’m going to be acting very quickly.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Within your first 100 days, first day?
PRES.-ELECT DONALD TRUMP:
First day.
KRISTEN WELKER:
First day?
PRES.-ELECT DONALD TRUMP:
Yeah. I’m looking first day.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You’re going to issue these pardons?
PRES.-ELECT DONALD TRUMP:
These people have been there, how long is it? Three, four years.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
The Trump administration was expected to begin large-scale deportations as early as Tuesday with an immigration raid planned in Chicago, but Mr. Trump's "border czar" said on Saturday the administration hasn't made a decision yet, after early details leaked out in press reports. The world is also responding to Washington's power shift, with a ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas setting up a possible reprieve in the 15-month war. Both President Biden and President-elect Trump trying to take credit.
[BEGIN TAPE]
REPORTER:
Who does the history books credit for this Mr. President, you or Trump?
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
Is that a joke?
PRES.-ELECT DONALD TRUMP:
If we weren't involved in this deal, the deal would have never happened. It was so ungracious of Biden to say, oh, he did it. He didn't do anything. If I didn't do this, if we didn't get involved, the hostages would never be out.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And joining me now is the Republican Speaker of the House Mike Johnson of Louisiana. Speaker Johnson, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
Glad to be with you and it's a great morning in Washington.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, it is an honor to have you here. We really appreciate it. I do want to start in the Middle East with that ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas now in effect. President-elect Donald Trump told me in that phone interview yesterday that this deal, quote, "better hold." Mr. Speaker, are you confident that this ceasefire agreement will, in fact, hold?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
We're very hopeful about that. I spoke with Prime Minister Netanyahu I believe on Thursday of this past week. They're cautiously optimistic. Hamas is a terrorist organization. They're not known to keep their word. But we need these hostages released. And we hope they're released into safety, we hope that there is peace in Israel. But I will say this, if Hamas breaks the ceasefire, they need to know the United States will stand with our ally, Israel. And Israel will have to eradicate that threat. It's very important for the stability of the region.
KRISTEN WELKER:
By all accounts, the first round of hostages that is set to be released are not Americans. Are you confident that the American hostages will be released in the coming days, if not weeks?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
We certainly pray that that is true. We met constantly with the hostage families. They've been in Washington advocating for their family members. It's such a tragic situation and so unnecessary. But again, it highlights the necessity of Israel taking decisive action. You cannot allow Hamas, which, of course, is a proxy of Iran, to be situated as they were, to have another October 7. We just can’t – the Israelis can't live under those conditions. And everyone around the world needs to know, as President Trump has made clear, that we stand with Israel. And there will be hell to pay for Hamas if they violate these terms.
KRISTEN WELKER:
What does hell to pay mean?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
We'll have to find out. I'm not going to forecast that action. But I will tell you, President Trump is coming back to restore peace through strength. And that's what the American people voted for and that's what our allies around the world are counting on.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you about the big news overnight. TikTok going dark for millions of users ahead of this nationwide ban going into effect. Both President Biden and President-elect Trump are signaling that they want to delay the ban. By the way, they both at one time supported the ban. But you were a very strong supporter of this ban, Mr. Speaker. You said that, quote, "Beijing is our number-one foreign threat." You have called TikTok a, quote, "serious and direct threat." Are you concerned by not enforcing this law the U.S. is sending a message of weakness to China?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
No, I think we will enforce the law. And when President Trump issued the truth post and said, "Save TikTok," the way we read that is that he's going to try to force along a true divestiture, changing of the hands, the ownership. It's not the platform that members of Congress are concerned about. It's the Chinese Communist Party and their manipulation of the algorithms. They have been flooding the minds of American children with terrible messages, glorifying violence and antisemitism and even suicide and eating disorders. I mean, crazy kind of stuff. And they're mining the data of American citizens. It's a very dangerous thing. The Chinese Communist Party is not our friend. And we have to make sure this changes hands. I'm really heartened to see that Google and Apple and Microsoft have taken the steps to comply with the law. There needs to be a sale, a full divestiture from the Chinese Communist Party. And I think President Trump is the one who can make that deal happen, so we're excited about it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
As you say, he did post just this morning, "Save TikTok." When I spoke with him in that phone interview on Saturday, he said to me that he is likely going to impose a 90-day extension to give TikTok that extra time to divest from the Chinese-owned company, ByteDance. But Mr. Speaker, they have had months to sell their ownership. Why are they going to do it now if they haven't done it so far? Why should Americans have confidence in that?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
That's the question. We don't have any confidence in ByteDance. They had 270 days, to be exact. The law is very precise. And the only way to extend that is if there is an actual deal in the works. Now, Kevin O'Leary and I think maybe even Elon and others have talked about buying it. I think Kevin O'Leary has an offer on the table. I think President Trump is probably intrigued by all this and he likes to make deals, as you know. So, we're very hopeful that that can happen and that 270 million American people who enjoy the platform can enjoy it, but enjoy it safely and not have their data being mined by our nation's enemy.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you about the big news that you made this week, Mr. Speaker. You replaced Congressman Mike Turner as the chair of the House Intelligence Committee. Congressman Turner has said publicly that you told him there were a range of reasons including, quote, "concerns from Mar-a-Lago." Did President Trump ask you to dismiss Mike Turner?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
Of course not. No, the idea, the notion that this is directed by the incoming administration is just simply false. There's a range of decisions that are made when you're determining chairmanships. I have nothing but praise for my colleague Mike Turner, a good friend. He's a great leader in Congress, did a good job under very difficult circumstances in the last Congress. But the whole intelligence community suffered a lack of trust, I think, over the last few years because of abuses. Not on the part of anyone in the House, but the intelligence community is the oversight mechanism that we have over that. And it just seemed like a good time to have a new change. So that's all it was.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Mr. Speaker, I don't have to tell you this. You have an historically razor-thin majority. You can only afford to lose two votes. Did you just risk alienating a critical moderate vote –
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
No.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– that you're going to need to get the Trump agenda passed, Mr. Speaker?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
No. As I said, Mike Turner and I are good friends, trusted friends and colleagues. He will still be one of the top leaders in the House. In fact, I reappointed him. I asked him to serve again and he graciously agreed. He is the face of the House with NATO.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But do you think you can count on his vote, Mr. Speaker?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
Oh sure. Look, Mike is a team player. He's going to help us enact the America First agenda. No question about that. But he will be the leader of NATO's Parliamentary Assembly, America's leader. In fact, he's the chair of that whole organization. They'll be hosting it in his district in Dayton, Ohio. All the NATO leaders, our colleagues, coming in for that. He's a strong voice in terms of national affairs and the intelligence and he'll continue to be that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Let's talk broadly about the Trump agenda. Obviously at the top of the list, his plans for mass deportation. He told me in a previous phone call there is no price tag for his mass deportation plan. And yet, by some estimates, it will cost as much as $88 billion per year, just to deport a million people. Are you, is Congress, prepared to support and pay for President-elect Trump's mass deportation plan, no matter what the cost, no matter how expensive?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
Kristen, I cannot think of a better dollar-for-dollar investment than to restore the security and the safety of the country. We've had a wide-open border for four years, and millions upon millions of illegal persons. We have dangerous, illegals in the country. Criminals who have already committed crimes here, violent crimes against the American citizens. The best thing we can do is return those people from where they came. And I think the American people understand that. I saw a New York Times poll, I think it was just two days ago, 87% of the American people agree that we should deport dangerous, illegal, criminal aliens. And that's what we're going to do.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And yet, the cost is staggering. And you said just last summer, quote, "Our biggest national security challenge is our national debt." Does that mean that you are committed to making sure that his mass deportation plan is paid for with offsets?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
Well, sure. Listen, the number-one job of the federal government is protecting the citizenry. And when you have a wide open border, you don't have safety, security, or even sovereignty, for that matter. President Trump is going to follow through on his campaign promises, and the promises that we all made on the campaign trail.
It costs money to do that. But that is a small investment in terms of what it cost us. What this staggering cost, the lack of resources in our local communities that has been pulled to handle this. This sanctuary cities nonsense that these Democrat cities brought about, and all their policies. And then the crime wave that it's brought upon the country, the untold humanitarian cost in terms of trafficking and fentanyl deaths, the leading cause of death for Americans age 18 to 49 for the last few years. We have to get on top of this. And so getting rid of that criminal element, that dangerous element, is something the American people want us to do.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Just bottom line, you are willing to spend trillions of dollars, if that's what it costs, to get this plan passed?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
Look, it won't cost trillions of dollars. I think – we don't yet know the dollar figure. But I will tell you that the American people are going to support that effort. And we're going to begin with the most dangerous elements. And you are going to see a dramatic change in the country because of it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
President-elect Trump has also said he was elected, re-elected, for two issues: the border and grocery prices. Can you guarantee that under President-elect Trump, under this Republican Congress, that grocery prices will, in fact, come down?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
Oh I don't think there's any question about that because we're going to return to fiscal sanity. As President Trump says, common sense. And that is we're going to make sure we don't have the largest tax increase in the U.S. history at the end of this year, when the Trump tax cuts would expire. And then we're going to turn the economic engines back on. We know how to do this. We did it in the first Trump administration. If you remember, right before COVID, after Trump took office, we had the greatest economy in the history of the world. I mean, incomes were rising, labor participation rates were up. Every demographic in the country was doing better. And then COVID hit and everything happened after that. But the way we did that is we reduced the tax burden on the American people. But even more importantly, the regulatory burden, that's going to be a major theme of the upcoming administration and this Congress. Because if you release the red tape, you unleash the free market again. And that's good for everybody.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But is there, bottom line, one piece of legislation targeted at bringing down grocery prices for the American consumer?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
Well, it's a complex collection of legislation because we've got to unwind and fix everything. I was on the campaign trail all last year traveling around the country. I logged enough miles to circle the globe five and a half times. We kept the House majority, we won the Senate majority for the Republican Party and we won the White House. And we told the American people that we would do well by them. And what I said on the campaign trail was, to summarize, we could be the most consequential Congress of the modern era, because we have to fix everything. I mean, everything's a mess. So, it's not just one switch that you flip back on. It's a number of them and we have to make it all work together. And we will.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, let's talk about disaster relief for California. I want to tell you something that California Governor Gavin Newsom wrote recently. He said, quote, "There must be no conditions, no strings attached to disaster aid." And yet, we know that there's a big conversation happening right now on Capitol Hill about linking disaster aid for California to an increase in the debt limit, which has been a traditionally really thorny issue. Are you and can you commit that California disaster relief won't have strings attached?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
No, I won't commit that because we have a serious problem in California. Listen, there are national disasters. I'm from Louisiana. We're prone to that. We understand how these things work. But then there's also human error. And when the state and local officials make foolish policy decisions that make the disaster exponentially worse, we need to factor that in. And I think that's a common-sense notion. Listen, in California, over the last couple years, they cut $100 million from forestry management. They cut, I think, almost $18 million from L.A.'s fire department, putting them into other crazy priorities. And you had a 117-million-gallon reservoir that was left empty for a year outside the Pacific Palisades. Those were decisions they made based on whatever, whatever their ideas were. But it made it worse and everyone knew it would. And the risk was there.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So it could be linked to the debt limit, to increasing the debt limit?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
Potentially. That's one of the things we're talking about. Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. Let me ask you about the pardons Mr. Trump has promised for January 6th defendants. When I interviewed him last month, he would not rule out pardoning those, even those who pleaded guilty to violent crimes. Mr. Speaker, do you believe that someone who assaulted a law enforcement officer on January 6th deserves a pardon?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
No. I think what the president said and Vice-President-elect JD Vance has said is that peaceful protesters should be pardoned, but violent criminals should not. That's a simple determination. It's up to the president on that. But there's been a lot of talk about it. But we'll see what happens.
KRISTEN WELKER:
President-elect Trump, just to be clear, has said he's going to look at everyone. When I interviewed him, he said he's not ruling out anyone. So, my question for you, would you oppose a pardon for someone who has pleaded guilty to assaulting a police officer?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
Look, every case needs to be evaluated, as he said. But what President Trump is getting at is the lack of faith that people have right now in our system of justice. It was abused for the last few years, under the last four years under the Biden administration. The Department of Justice itself was weaponized. When the people lose their faith in our system of justice, that is what leads to all these other concerns. And President Trump's going to restore that. We're going to have new leadership.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Very quickly, we're almost out of time. What will you be listening for, what do you want to hear tomorrow in President-elect Trump's inaugural address?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
Well this is – we're going to usher in a new golden age for America. He's excited, we're all excited, everyone. You walk around this city, there's this sense of anticipation because we know that something big is happening here. I feel like it is, the comparison to Reagan this morning on moving it inside I think is apt because it was Morning in America under Reagan. Now we're going to have a new golden age. You're going to hear that hopeful tone, I think, in President Trump's speech, and a unifying speech. And I think that's really important for the country.
KRISTEN WELKER:
House Speaker Mike Johnson, thank you very much for being here. We hope you'll come back again soon.
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
Will do it. Thanks for having me.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Thanks so much. And when we come back, House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. And joining me now is House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries. Leader Jeffries, welcome back to Meet the Press.
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
Good morning. Great to be with you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, it's an honor to have you here on a very big Sunday. I do want to start in the Middle East and that ceasefire agreement between Israel and Hamas. As you know, in this extraordinary move the outgoing Biden administration and incoming Trump administration did work together to try to secure this ceasefire agreement. Since then we have seen both Mr. Biden and Mr. Trump try to take some credit for this deal. Let me ask you, Leader Jeffries, do you believe that President-elect Donald Trump deserves some credit for this ceasefire agreement?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
What's most important is it was an act of diplomacy that was accomplished – first put into the public domain, of course, by President Biden in May of last year having secured the support of the then Israeli war cabinet and the UN Security Council. We're thankful that Israeli hostages and American hostages are on the way home. Humanitarian assistance will be surged into Gaza to provide relief to Palestinian civilians, and that the foundation will be laid for a path to a just and lasting peace with a safe and secure Israel.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Just to the bottom-line point though, Leader Jeffries, do you believe that President-elect Trump also deserves some of the credit for getting this deal over the finish line? How do you see it?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
I think that'll be a question that historians will have to answer moving forward. Right now, we should be focused on making sure that phase one of this plan is fully implemented and that we can move to phase two and phase three, as it relates to the reconstruction of Gaza, making sure that Hamas is completely and totally eradicated and that there's a path toward a just and lasting peace.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, let's talk about the Trump agenda. President-elect Trump's mass deportation operation is set to begin as early as Tuesday, obviously the details still being hammered out. He told me he plans to start by focusing on undocumented immigrants with criminal histories. Do you support the raids that are expected to take place this week in major cities?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
We have a broken immigration system, and we certainly need to fix it, and fix it in a comprehensive and bipartisan manner. That should begin by making sure we secure the border. And House Democrats have made clear that we are ready, willing, and able to work with the incoming administration to get that done in a bipartisan manner. With respect to undocumented immigrants, what America needs is for the incoming administration to focus on violent felons, not breaking up families.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So, you would support removing violent felons first in these raids that are expected in major cities across the country.
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
I support the current administration and the incoming administration doing what's necessary to ensure the safety and security of communities throughout the United States of America. And that obviously entails focusing on the removal of violent felons who threaten the well-being of the American people.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You heard me just talk with House Speaker Mike Johnson about the price tag that is anticipated to be associated with this mass deportation plan. Leader Jeffries, are you prepared to vote yes to support this plan to pay for this mass deportation effort?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
What we're prepared to do is to focus on the issues that matter. And first and foremost, that means driving down the high cost of living in the United States of America. Housing costs are too high. Grocery costs are too high. Insurance costs are too high. Utility costs are too high. Childcare costs are too high. America is too expensive. And what we need to do is to drive down the high cost of living and build an affordable economy for hard-working American taxpayers. We haven't seen any ideas, any plans, any bills put forward by our Republican colleagues in the House to get that done. We're anxiously awaiting something to show that they're serious about that effort.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And no decision yet on whether you'll support that mass deportation plan?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
With respect to deportation activities, as I've indicated, the administration needs to focus on the removal of violent felons who threaten the well-being of the American people.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me get your take on disaster aid, Leader Jeffries. You just heard Speaker Johnson very clearly say that, yes, there may be strings attached, that, yes, it's possible that they will move to try to link it to an increase in the debt limit. Would you vote yes if that were to come before you, if that were the only way you believe to get disaster relief to Californians?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
The California delegation in the House has been very clear that they do not support conditioning disaster assistance to the American people whose lives have been overturned as a result of the historic wildfires in California. In the history of this country, we have never conditioned disaster assistance to Americans who are hurting. Why would we do it right now? Here's the answer in terms of why House Republicans are proposing to do just that. House Republicans want to pass massive tax breaks for billionaires and wealthy corporations to benefit the wealthy, the well off, and the well-connected, and to stick the bill with working-class Americans and those in the middle class who they claim to want to support. That is not an effort, that is not a scheme that Democrats will support.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you. You said in your floor speech to the 119th Congress, quote, "In a democracy there's a time to campaign and a time to govern." Is there one issue, Leader Jeffries, you can identify today where you think you can find common ground with Republicans, where you're prepared to work with Republicans?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
The American dream has been broken for decades in this country. There are far too many Americans who are struggling to live paycheck to paycheck, can't get ahead, can barely get by. And we need to step in, not as Democrats or Republicans, but as Americans, as public servants, to do something about it, to make sure that people can actually pursue the American dream of home ownership, educate their children, have access to health care, and one day retire with grace and dignity. That's the American dream. That has been broken for decades. We need to work together to fix it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
There's a lot of question about Democrats' role, speaking of 2024, that Democrats played in allowing President Biden to stay in the race as long as he did. I want to play something that you said back in February of 2024. Take a look.
[BEGIN TAPE]
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN:
Do you think that it's time to pass the baton to a new generation of leadership? Or do you think Joe Biden is the strongest candidate to defeat Donald Trump?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
Well, Joe Biden is definitely the strongest candidate to defeat Donald Trump.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
What do you say to Americans who believe you and other top Democrats misled them?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
Well, Joe Biden was the incumbent president at the time. He was the candidate at the time. And I supported him at the time. And that was the right thing to do based on the incumbent president making the decision that he was going to run. Obviously things changed in late June and early July. But I think what's most important at this moment is not for us to look backwards, but to look forward, solve problems for hard-working American taxpayers, and get things done. That's what the American people want to happen. That's the message that I interpret from the November election. And that's the work that House Democrats are prepared to do to make sure we're improving the quality of life for working-class Americans, not the wealthy, the well off, or the well-connected.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Leader Jeffries, I guess just bottom line, do you believe you had a responsibility to be more forthcoming about what you had seen behind closed doors as it relates to President Biden?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
What I saw behind closed doors was a president who was working hard to get things done — to deliver for the American people on infrastructure, on driving down the high price of life-saving prescription drugs, on bringing domestic manufacturing jobs back home to the United States of America. It's important to understand that President Biden inherited three different catastrophes on Day One: a democracy catastrophe, a public health catastrophe, and an economic catastrophe all at the same time and worked hard to put America in the strongest possible position moving forward.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Leader Jeffries, very quickly, with President Biden set to leave the White House on Monday, who do you think is the leader of the Democratic Party right now?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
We're going to work hard as House Democrats to get things done for the American people. We'll have a DNC chair election at the end of this month. We look forward to of course working with our colleagues in the Senate and Democratic governors across the country in order to present a vision that is inclusive, that is decisive, and that is anchored in making life better for everyday Americans moving forward. And then we'll put it in the hands of the American people in two years.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, Leader Jeffries, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate having you on this very significant Sunday.
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And when we come back, a new Trump era begins, and President Biden exits the stage. The panel is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back, the panel is here. NBC News chief White House correspondent Peter Alexander; Amna Nawaz, co-anchor of PBS NewsHour; former Trump White House communications director Mike Dubke; and former Biden White House press secretary Jen Psaki. Thank you to all of you for being here on the Sunday before the inauguration. Peter, let's start with you. We know that President-elect Trump has said he's going to sign a record number of executive actions, flurry of activity tomorrow, but also over these next 100 days. What are you going to be watching for?
PETER ALEXANDER:
Yeah, well, you talk about executive actions, he's touting, what, dozens or perhaps 100 – we had a look back, but in 2017 on day one there was just one. So this is a president who has a much better understanding of the way this job works, the rhythms of the job. He recognizes the window of time. He really has control of all things in Washington. He has to get to work right away. I do think we'll hear him use the megaphone of the office to sort of say that he has a broad mandate going forward. Right now, recognize this is a president who has now spent more time as a former president of the United States than he ever spent as a candidate before the first go.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
PETER ALEXANDER:
So he's had a lot of folks around him, some will say Project 2025 gave us a preview, but a lot more time to sort of prep whatever they wanted to do this go-around as they do. And I think the expectations though are very high from his supporters as he comes in this time. The campaign posture was, you can make a lot of promises. Now you have to start delivering on those things. And – oh, by the way, I know we're some football fans at the table here – much like you can script the first ten plays of a game, there's always a crisis that comes in and changes up what your plans may have been. We saw what happened within the last two weeks, the fires in California, that can always happen right away as well.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, it's a really great point. And Amna, you heard the urgency in Speaker Johnson and also some of the challenges as Peter points to. The expectations are sky high for President-elect Trump.
AMNA NAWAZ:
That’s right.
KRISTEN WELKER:
He has laid out this ambitious agenda, and yet Speaker Johnson's dealing with this narrow –
AMNA NAWAZ:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– majority in the House. This is going to be an uphill battle.
AMNA NAWAZ:
Yeah, let's be clear. The expectations are high because that is where President-elect Trump has set them. So that is what his party –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yes. That's a very important point, yes.
AMNA NAWAZ:
– now has to see through. Look, he – he's going to try to push through party-line votes on a bill that could include everything from border security and manufacturing and tax provisions, essentially lifting the debt ceiling with a history razor-thin majority. That is a very, very tall order. And you have to remember, there were a few members of his House caucus who basically said, "We're not sure about you" in that first round of votes. They wanted to send a message though they did get on board very, very quickly. How on board are they going to be when you see provisions that could be adding to the debt limit, that could – don't necessarily want to raise the debt ceiling as well? And the reality here is that Speaker Johnson needs President Trump. Right? In some ways, he owes him his gavel. They have two years to try to get through as much as they possibly can. But you do see senators saying, "We want to split this into two bills. Prioritize border security first, then deal with the tax provisions." I think the overarching reality right now, though, is that there's not really a Republican lawmaker willing to say no to Mr. Trump. You have former rivals lining up to be his – in his cabinet. Liz Cheney is gone. There's no reason to expect they won't try to push through what he wants.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You've taken me to my next point beautifully, Mike, which is that, what a different world President-elect Trump enters –
MIKE DUBKE:
Very different world.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– than in 2017, which Peter was touching on as well. He's got this Republican-controlled Congress. Okay, he also had that in 2016. But he's been here before, and he's surrounding himself by loyalists. I mean, is there anyone in this mix who can stand up to him and say no?
MIKE DUBKE:
Oh, I think so. And – and look, every administration walks in with a level of euphoria. And I think there – Speaker Johnson talked about the excitement that's in Washington right now, and I think we're going to see that on the first few days. To your point, President Trump has raised the stakes, so – so to speak. But when – in the early days of the last administration, there were a lot of unknowns on how to get things done. This group coming in and has been there and done that. And so we will see more than one EO come out during the first day. But what I'm really expecting to see is more of the – the shock and awe of – of an ICE immigration policy happening in Chicago or elsewhere. I think a lot of this is going to be less on the EOs and more in the optics of what's happening. There's going to be a lot of action coming out of the gate.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, I think so and Jen, it was notable to hear from Leader Jeffries. I mean, clearly he's opposed to some of what President-elect Trump is proposing, but you heard him continue to go back to this idea, "Look, we're gonna try to find common ground as it relates to the economy, lowering prices for the American public.”
JEN PSAKI:
Watching that I was thinking, "He is trying to send a message to Democrats in Congress and people at home, 'Do not take the bait on every issue.’”
KRISTEN WELKER:
Interesting. Yeah.
JEN PSAKI:
We have to pick our battles. They don't control anything. There is a narrow margin in the House, so yes, Mike Johnson needs Trump, but he also needs Jeffries and he also needs Democrats to get things done. Jeffries knows that. And they also have to see what happens now. Republicans control the House, the Senate, the White House, arguably the Supreme Court. So bad things that happen in the country, it's hard to pin on Democrats. They have to figure out what battles they're going to fight. But he was – he clearly came in with a notecard of the message he wanted to send, and he was stuck to it. Which I think is actually a very smart strategy for Democrats to follow.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It's a fascinating point, Jen. And speaking of Democratic messaging, President Biden's been very focused on his own messaging. He's dealing with some real headwinds. Let's look at some of the headlines just from this week: "How Biden Destroyed His Legacy," "’One of the Great Tragedies of American Politics:’ Biden ends Five Decades in Public Life," "Biden's Presidential Legacy: An Era of Change, Forever Marked by Trump." Peter Alexander, how is he trying to write the first draft of his legacy? And you have new reporting on what we might see from him in the next 48 hours.
PETER ALEXANDER:
Well, of course he came to office the first go-around as the president who defeated Donald Trump, and in the eyes of many of his supporters, protected democracy. Now he departs and the fatal flaw, perhaps, is that he has paved the way for Donald Trump's return to power. The thinking was he would be this transformational figure early on with some of these big, legislative achievements that he celebrated. He would be a transactional – transitional figure as well, but of course now the transition is back in the hands of Republicans. And I think that's going to tarnish his legacy, certainly in the near term right now, by choosing to run again and then waiting too long to decide to drop out. In terms of how he can still impact his legacy in these waiting hours, even as we were speaking, I was waiting for this conversation, had been told by White House officials yesterday there would be more pardons and commutations coming out today. As clockwork, they came out this morning. So he has the record of pardons and commutations. But the ones to wait on are still the preemptive pardons. Will there be some for those that many in his circle – he included things could be targeted, the Liz Cheneys, the Adam Schiffs, the others. And I'm told that the president is, quote, "Considering this very seriously even at this hour." That if they happen, they're likely to happen tomorrow morning just before he leaves office. There have been meetings within the last several days even with senior staff.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Boy, that would be significant. Amna, what are you going to be watching for? And what are the takeaways from what we heard from President Biden this week in that farewell address where he warned an oligarchy was taking root?
PETER ALEXANDER:
Yeah.
AMNA NAWAZ:
I think it's very in line for the president. Right? He's someone who's always looking ahead to the next thing, and I think the warning of what's to come was sort of in line with what we've seen from him in 50 years of – of public service. I come back to this idea, paraphrasing Walt Whitman, that presidencies are like people. They contain multitudes. It's very, very complicated. They tend to get shinier the more time goes on. So all of these things Peter mentioned: he came in at a time of chaos, led us through a pandemic, pursued historic investments, the , you know, fruits of which I think will be seen in the future as well, pushed through this ceasefire deal. All of that's part of his legacy. So, too, is this idea that, you know, 46,000 deaths of Palestinians are also part of his legacy. This idea that he – questions around whether he should've run or not are also part of his legacy. It is very, very complicated. But I will say, if you can say anything about Joe Biden, and tomorrow we're going to mark the birthday of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., is this idea of never losing infinite hope. Fifty years of public service, the legacy will be written over time.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, and Jen, you know him personally –
JEN PSAKI:
I have to say, watching that speech on Thursday night, it was not at all what I expected. I – I thought the first part of it was going to be largely talking about his legacy of legislative achievements –
MIKE DUBKE:
A list.
JEN PSAKI:
– and lists. That's often what you hear in his speeches. And what it marked to me, or what the message was sent to me, was he was saying to people at home, he rarely speaks directly to the public. That speech was voiced to the public. He was saying, "I am no longer here. I can't protect. No one is protecting you, American people. The Supreme Court is not protecting you. Congress is not protecting you. The person sitting at this desk is not protecting you. There's an oligarchy of rich people who are close to the guy who's going to sit here. It's up to you. You are the keepers of that." That is not a Joe Biden message, which I think was – that was what was striking to me about the speech.
KRISTEN WELKER:
With our final –
PETER ALEXANDER:
Can I just say, progressives wanted this to happen a lot sooner. Right?
JEN PSAKI:
That's true.
PETER ALEXANDER:
They're like, "Why is this his final speech right now?" And ironically, the MAGA-faithful tomorrow are going to be outside during the inauguration. All the elites will be with him inside in the Capitol.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, how's that going to play?
JEN PSAKI:
Including the oligarchy.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Fifteen seconds.
MIKE DUBKE:
If – if – look, Joe Biden was a tragedy in three parts from his young years to the middle in the vice president and at the end. And he left the stage too late. And at the end of the day, that's what the Democrats are going to have to struggle with and deal with.
KRISTEN WELKER:
That's what history will be looking at for years and decades and centuries to come. Thank you for a fantastic conversation. When we come back, the powerful message from Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Our Meet the Press Minute is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. Tomorrow is Martin Luther King Jr. Day, a time to reflect on the life and legacy of one of the civil rights movement’s most influential leaders. As the nation considers how close it is to achieving Dr. King’s dream, let’s turn back to 1967, when he shared his hopes for solving the racial divide right here on Meet the Press.
[BEGIN TAPE]
SIMEON BOOKER:
Dr. King, do you believe that the American racial problem can be solved?
DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.:
Yes, I do. I refuse to give up. I refuse to despair in this moment. I refuse to allow myself to fall into the dark chambers of pessimism, because I think in any social revolution the one thing that keeps it going is hope, and when hope dies somehow the revolution degenerates into a kind of nihilistic philosophy which says you must engage in disruption for disruption's sake. I refuse to believe that. However difficult it is, I believe that the forces of good will, white and black in this country, can work together to bring about a resolution of this problem.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, our Meet the Moment conversation with the son of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. As the nation prepares to honor Martin Luther King Jr. on the same day as the inauguration, I spoke with his son, Martin Luther King III. He’s the co-author of a new book, “What Is My Legacy?” exploring the weight of his family name and the ongoing fight to fulfill his father’s dream. We sat down for a very special Meet the Moment conversation.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Martin Luther King III, welcome back to Meet the Press.
MARTIN LUTHER KING III:
Thank you. Honored to have the opportunity.
KRISTEN WELKER:
We are honored to have you here. I rarely do this, but I have to say on a personal note, I probably wouldn't be sitting in this chair if it weren't for not only the work of your father, but your father's legacy. Every Martin Luther King, Jr. Day, my mother would take me to an event honoring him, would use it as an opportunity to teach me about my history. It was a day of service, a day of reflection, and so I thank you, I thank your family. And with that, I ask you, what do you think the day which we mark your father's legacy means to little boys and little girls all across this country today?
MARTIN LUTHER KING III:
Well, I hope that young people and people in general see it as a day, my mother used to say, "A day on, not a day off," so that generally holidays, we relax and chill. This is not about that. This is about working to realize the dream that he had of freedom and justice and equality for all humankind. So we come to the table every year, and people will ask me, "Well, did we realize the dream last year?" Maybe we’ve realized elements over the years. But anywhere near the fulfillment of the dream, absolutely not.
KRISTEN WELKER:
On that point, as we sit here today, we are a nation that is divided, fractured, struggling to communicate. What do you think your father would make of this moment in which we find ourselves?
MARTIN LUTHER KING III:
He'd be quite disappointed, quite frankly, that we are where we are. Probably wouldn't be surprised. But he certainly would be disappointed because he always infused energy that was positive, bringing out the best of who we as Americans are. And quite frankly, unfortunately in great tragedy, we see the best of who Americans are. But when it's over, we go back to our corners and live in bubbles and separate. We need to exhibit the behavior that we exhibit in tragedy universally, all the time.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, you write in your new book “What Is My Legacy?,” which – I love this section because you talk very candidly about how you're grappling with your legacy, your work here. You say, "If Dad had been a physician and owned a medical clinic, I could've built on his work by opening a chain of clinics. But my dad's name is known throughout the world and honored with a national holiday. I can't better that, so I've re-calibrated my expectations of myself. I hope I can be known for my own body of work. Instead of the son of, I hope to be known as Martin Luther King III who happens to be the son of Martin Luther King, Jr." How do you come to terms with those complex feelings?
MARTIN LUTHER KING III:
I'm grateful, so grateful, for my mother, who liberated me when I was, I don't know, 12, 14 years old. She used to tell me, "You don't have to go to Morehouse College. You don't have to be a minister. You don't have to be a civil and human rights leader. Just be your best self. Whatever that is, we will support.” So I did end up going to Morehouse. I did end up becoming a civil and human rights leader. But I did not go into the ministry. Not because that's not something I considered, it's just because I feel that's a very special, unique calling.
KRISTEN WELKER:
This year marks 60 years of Bloody Sunday. Sixty years of the passage of the Voting Rights Act. How do you see the road ahead? There have been enormous advances and progress made, and also some setbacks.
MARTIN LUTHER KING III:
My father used to say that whenever there is a perception, any reality of progress, there are always the inevitable setbacks. 1963, when he was delivering the I Have Dream speech, the nation was very excited and everything felt really great. But less than three weeks after the march, the 16th Street Baptist Church was bombed. You know, when George Floyd tragically was killed, for about a year we were doing all kind of incredible things to create opportunities for people who've been excluded historically. After about a year, the pushback came. And we started banning books. We're starting to dismantle — excuse me, dismantle DEI.
KRISTEN WELKER:
This year, the day that we remember and mark your father's legacy falls on the same day of the inauguration of President-elect Donald Trump. What will you be listening for in his speech? You said you're going to be paying close attention.
MARTIN LUTHER KING III:
Yeah, I would – He has said that he wants to create some semblance of unity. Now, what that means is you've got to be in dialogue with everybody. If you really want to bring the nation together so that it is the manifestation of what we call ourselves, the United States of America, we're not reflective of the United States of America right this moment, in my judgment.
KRISTEN WELKER:
We've talked so much about your father's dream for this country. What is your dream for this country?
MARTIN LUTHER KING III:
Well, in a similar way, my dream is in alignment with my mom and father. Because I wish that we were at a different place and the work had been done. So, I believe there is a consciousness that's coming. Not here yet, but coming. And so I want to be a part of helping, whatever I can do, to make us this truly amazing nation, the nation that it ought to be.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And you can watch my full Meet the Moment conversation with Martin Luther King III at MeetThePress.com. That is all for today. Thank you so much for watching. We’ll be back next week, because if it’s Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.