KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: executive orders.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
The American people have spoken.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Donald Trump returns to the White House, moving quickly to enact his second term agenda, issuing sweeping pardons for January 6th rioters.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
Some of those people with the police, true, but they were very minor incidents.
SEN. LISA MURKOWSKIl
You just blanket pardon all of them? Without consequence? I think that that sounds – sends a horrible message to our law enforcement officers.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Plus: Show of force. President Trump orders U.S. troops to the southern border as he ramps up his mass deportation plan.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
We're getting the bad, hard criminals out. These are murderers. These are people that have been as bad as you get.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And: trade war.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
If you don't make your product in America, which is your prerogative, then, very simply, you will have to pay a tariff.
KRISTEN WELKER:
President Trump threatens steep tariffs on the United States' largest trading partners.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
All we want is fairness. We just want a level playing field.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But will Mr. Trump's tariffs actually end up punishing American consumers more? My guests this morning: Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California. Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Senior White House Correspondent Garrett Haake; Leigh Ann Caldwell, Chief Washington Correspondent for Puck; former Republican Congressman Carlos Curbelo; and Ashley Etienne, former communications director to Vice President Harris. Welcome to Sunday. It's Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, it’s Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. In his frenzied first week in office, President Trump is testing the limits of his presidential power, racing to fulfill campaign promises, to reshape the federal government, and to settle scores.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
Many people thought it was impossible for me to stage such a historic political comeback. But as you see today, here I am. The American people have spoken.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
On his first night as president, Mr. Trump granting a blanket pardon to virtually all of the roughly 1,500 defendants in the January 6th Capitol attack and commuting the sentences of the remaining 14.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PETER ALEXANDER:
You would agree that it's never acceptable to assault a police officer, right?
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
Sure.
PETER ALEXANDER:
So then, if I can, among those you pardoned, DJ Rodriguez, he drove a stun gun into the neck of a D.C. police officer who was abducted by the mob that day. He later confessed on video to the FBI and pleaded guilty for his crimes. Why does he deserve a pardon?
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
Well, we'll take a look at everything. But I can say this, murderers today are not even charged.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
President Trump's decision to pardon all defendants including violent offenders opposed by 60 percent of Americans, and even his own vice president suggested in the days before the pardons were handed out, violent offenders wouldn't be included.
[BEGIN TAPE]
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
If you protested peacefully on January 6th, and you've had Merrick Garland's Department of Justice treat you like a gang member, you should be pardoned. If you committed violence on that day, obviously you shouldn't be pardoned. And there's a little bit of a gray area there, but we're very much committed to seeing the equal administration of law.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
The president also signing executive orders aimed at shutting down the southern border and ramping up deportations, the first of 1,500 additional troops touching down in El Paso, Texas, to support border security. According to an internal memo obtained by NBC News, the Trump administration is also allowing ICE officials to quickly deport migrants who were legally allowed into the country temporarily under the Biden administration. President Trump is already running into the constitutional limits of his executive authority, his plan to end automatic citizenship for children born on American soil, known as birthright citizenship, blocked by a federal judge.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
Obviously we'll appeal it. They put it before a certain judge in Seattle, I guess, right? And there's no surprises with that judge.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
On a trip to disaster recovery areas in North Carolina and California, President Trump embraced his political opponents but also floated the possibility of eliminating FEMA entirely, proposing the White House send disaster relief directly to states.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
I think frankly, FEMA is not good. FEMA has turned out to be a disaster. I think we're going to recommend that FEMA go away.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Now, a president does not have the power to shut down FEMA, and would need Congress to give him the authority to remake or get rid of any agency. President Trump was also reminded of the Senate's guardrails on Friday night when Pete Hegseth became the second Cabinet member in history to be confirmed on a tie-breaking vote. Hegseth was approved by the smallest margin for any confirmed defense secretary. Three Republican senators, Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski and Mitch McConnell, joined all Democrats to oppose him.
[BEGIN TAPE]
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS:
I was disturbed about his comments on women in the military. I read the portion of his book in which he basically says that women should be moms and questions whether they should be in the military at all, much less in combat roles.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator McConnell called the role of defense secretary quote, "A daily test with staggering consequences for the security of the American people and our global interests,” writing, "Hr. Hegseth has failed, as yet, to demonstrate that he will pass this test." Hegseth was sworn in on Saturday and was pressed by NBC News.
[BEGIN TAPE]
ELYSE PERLMUTTER GUMBINER:
Secretary Hegseth, why should women in the armed service trust you?
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
Guys, let me answer that for the new secretary. All people in our armed services should trust him because he looks out for them and he's going to fight for them, and he's going to make sure that we have the kind of military that we can all be proud in, that we can all be proud of. And again, when we send in to do a job, we do it well, we do it quickly, and then we get the hell out.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And joining me now is Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina. Senator Graham, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Thank you. Thank you very much.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Thanks so much for being here in person.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It's great to see you. I do want to start with Pete Hegseth. He was just confirmed to be Defense secretary –
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yes.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– by the narrowest margin in history.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Right.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator McConnell voted no, and he said he wasn't convinced that Mr. Hegseth was ready to manage three million people and a budget of nearly $1 trillion. You, of course, voted yes. But, Senator, do you share any of Senator McConnell's reservations about Pete Hegseth?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
You know, what I do, I vote for almost everybody. I voted for Lloyd Austin, and I get a lot of crap on our side when I do that. But I think Pete will be taking the department in a new direction. He'll be more focused on war fighting. I think that Lloyd Austin's a nice man, but it was a tough four years. So, I'll just leave it up to Senator McConnell to explain his vote. At the end of the day, I was okay. Now, all these accusations against him were disturbing, but they were never proven, and he did a really good job at the hearing. And that's what got me to yes.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Let's move on to President Trump's agenda.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
His mass deportation plans. He wants to deport the 11 million people who are here in this country illegally.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You are proposing a $100 billion package, which by some estimates would deport about a million people. So, Senator, my question for you is what happens, what is the plan for the remaining 10 million people who are here illegally?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I'm not so sure they're going to deport 11 million people. He said they're going to deport people who are part of gangs, that are criminals. There's 1.4 million who've had their case fully adjudicated and they're still here. There's about 680,000 convicted of serious crimes. But here's the question for the Republican Party: We talk about doing this, but we don’t have the resources – we haven't given the Trump team the resources. Tom Homan, the border czar, said yesterday, "Without money from Congress, I can't do this." He needs to substantially hire more ICE agents. He needs to finish the wall and technology. He needs to go from 41,000 detention beds to 150,000 detention beds to make this work. So, to my Republican colleagues, particularly in the House, as we fiddle, our immigration plans are hitting walls. We're not building walls, we're hitting walls. We need to give Tom Homan the money now to execute the plan that he's come up with. And without congressional funding,k this is going to hit a wall.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I want to talk to you about the strategy in just a moment. But to follow up on something you said, I mean, President Trump said to me he wants to deport everyone who's here illegally, whether they have a criminal history or whether they don't.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
With the exception potentially of dreamers –
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
He mentioned dreamers.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– those who were brought here as kids, when they were children. But, Senator, are you saying that the plan is not to deport everyone who's here illegally?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I'll let them speak as to what their plans are. The public is actually with supporting criminal – illegal immigrants. The public is with supporting everybody that came in during Biden's four years. He wants to do something on DACA. But here's what I would tell our team: Without more money, Tom Homan is hitting a wall. So, we need to do two bills in reconciliation. The first bill should be $100 billion for the border, $200 billion for national security. Put those points on the board, give Tom the tools he needs to execute a mass deportation strategy to deal with a mass illegal immigration problem created by Biden. Without new money, he cannot do this.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you about President Trump's executive order that he signed on birthright citizenship.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Essentially trying to end birthright citizenship, which allows people who were born in this country to be citizens. It's enshrined in the 14th Amendment of the Constitution. A federal judge blocked that this week, put it on hold. Do you think the Supreme Court will side with President Trump on birthright citizenship?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I think there's a good chance. I introduced legislation to end birthright citizenship years ago. Canada, Mexico, and the United States are, like, three of the 20 economic powers in the country. There are three of us that do this. Maybe Brazil. So, it's a magnet for illegal immigration. Here's what I learned yesterday, I didn't know: there were about 250,000 people born in this country to illegal immigrants and got the benefit of birthright citizenship. That's 7% of all the babies born in the country. So, I think when it comes to illegal immigration, if you want to turn off the spigot, change this policy. I think it's a cheap way to award citizenship. You should not be a citizen simply because you were born here. You have to have some connection to the jurisdiction of the United States.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But you think that the Supreme Court will agree –
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I don’t know.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– to change the Constitution?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I think – I'm glad he's doing it –
KRISTEN WELKER:
It's enshrined in the Constitution.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
He's doing it through executive order. There's one case on this. In 1898, a Chinese immigrant who was here lawfully, and the court said he had a lawful connection to the country. They've never decided the question, can a child born of illegal immigrants, no connection to the country, do they automatically get birthright citizenship? That is an unanswered question. I think we'll know here pretty soon.
KRISTEN WELKER:
We will watch it very closely. Let's turn now to President Trump's decision to pardon – to give blanket pardons to everyone who was convicted of crimes on January 6th, including the 172 people who pleaded guilty to assaulting law enforcement officers. Even his own vice president said, quote, "If you committed violence on that day, obviously you shouldn't be pardoned." Do you believe that President Trump was wrong to issue these blanket pardons to the January 6th defendants?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Number one, he had the legal authority to do it. But I fear that you will get more violence. Pardoning the people who went into the Capitol and beat up a police officer violently I think was a mistake, because it seems to suggest that's an okay thing to do. Kamala Harris wanted to raise bail money for people burning down Minneapolis. You know, Biden pardoned half his family going out the door. I think most Americans, if this continues, to see this as an abuse of the pardon power, that we'll revisit the pardon power of the president if this continues. But as to pardoning violent people who beat up cops, I think that's a mistake.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So, you think it was a mistake by President Trump to issue these blanket pardons. What message does it convey to law enforcement, and have you conveyed that directly to Mr. Trump?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
There's really been no better supporter of law enforcement in general. And there are a lot of people who supported President Trump, law enforcement, didn't like this. But he said it during the campaign. He's not tricking people. You know, Biden promised not to pardon his family, he did. Trump said, "I'm going to pardon these people." So, the fact that he did it is no surprise. But I'll be consistent here. I don't like the idea of bailing people out of jail or pardoning people who burn down cities and beat up cops, whether you're a Republican or a Democrat.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. Let me ask you about President Trump's decision to revoke security clearance from some of his – I should say security protection –
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Right.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– from some of his former top aides, including Mike Pompeo, his former secretary of state, his former National Security Advisor, John Bolton. Both of them have received –
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
And Brian Hook.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– Yeah, and they've received threats from Iran. What is your reaction? And do you think that President Trump should actually reverse course on that one?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Well, I told Senator Tom Cotton, who's the Intelligence Committee chair, and he got a briefing. And he told me, he asked a very good question to the briefers. If it was you and your family, would you want a protective detail? And they said yes. So, it needs to be on an as-needed basis. You know, we don't get protection as former senators or congressmen. And now, the idea of giving protection to everybody makes no sense. But if there's a legitimate threat against people who served our government from a foreign adversary, I don't want to pull that protection. So, I think what you'll see is the Senate particularly get a briefing about this, and engage the White House to see if we can get some relief. Because I fear it will chill out how people will serve in the future.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So, you disagree with the decision to revoke their security protection, it sounds like.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
President – If it's needed, I want to keep it. And it seems to me that the threat levels justify the continuation of the program. But I'll know more next week.
KRISTEN WELKER:
We know that John Bolton has been a critic of the president. Do you see this as political retribution?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
You know, President Trump said something that was true, you can't get protection for all of your life. The question is, do you deserve protection because you served an administration, you stood up to a foreign adversary, and they want to kill you? I know this: They've been trying to assassinate President Trump. That's a fact. And I believe the threat streams may not be at that same level to Pompeo, Brian Hook, or Bolton, but the last thing we want to do in this country is tell somebody, "Come into our government, you know, come up with policies to stand up to rogue nations like Iran. They come after you, we'll pull the rug on you." We don't need to do that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Couple more and we're almost out of time. Tulsi Gabbard, of course, is going to have her confirmation hearing this week for director of national intelligence. Some of your Republican colleagues still have a number of questions for her about meeting with Syria’s dictator, Bashar al-Assad, about supporting Edward Snowden, who, of course, leaked state secrets. Do you trust Tulsi Gabbard with the nation's most closely held secrets, Senator?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I tend to vote for almost everybody in both parties, but I want to see how the hearing goes. "Why did you go to Syria? What did you do regarding Assad? Why do you think Edward Snowden should be held as a hero?" I certainly don't. We'll see how the hearing goes. But in her favor, Richard Burr is going to introduce her, and he's one of my dearest friends. So, we'll see.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, can you say right now, are you a yes on Tulsi Gabbard?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I'm going to see how the hearing goes. I'm inclined to be yes on everybody. But there are some questions she will be asked that I want to hear the answers to.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So, you're a “we'll see,” not a yes?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
We'll see.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. Let me ask you finally, on Friday night, President Trump removed, as you know, 18 independent inspectors general. Just for folks, so they know what that means, these are watchdogs in key departments from Defense, to the State Department, Veterans Affairs. What do you say to those who believe that President Trump is going to replace these watchdogs with loyalists?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
You know, I'm not overly worried about that. It's not the first time people have come in and put their team in. When you win an election, you need people in your administration that reflect your views. So, I'm not really worried about that. This other stuff, you know, the security detail, that bothers me because it sends a signal to future service. Tulsi Gabbard, I'm inclined to vote for everybody, but I want to hear her thinking about Assad and Snowden. And we'll see.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But very quickly, the law says he's supposed to give –
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
30 days.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– 30 days’ notice. He didn't do that.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
No, he didn't, no.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you think he violated the law?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Well, technically yeah. But he has the authority to do it. So, I'm not, you know, losing a whole lot of sleep that he wants to change the personnel out. I just want to make sure that he gets off to a good start. I think he has. I'm very supportive of what he wants to do with America. I want to give his team more money for the border. And let me just end on this, to my House Republican colleagues in the House and the Senate, if we don't give Tom Homan more resources, all the things we've promised we would do during the campaign are going to fall flat. Without money, he can't do what he promised to do.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Senator Lindsey Graham, please come back and join us again soon.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I will.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. When we come back, Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. And joining me now is Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California. Senator Schiff, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
Great to be with you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It's great to have you here in person. Thank you for joining us. I want to start on President Trump's sweeping pardons of the January 6th convicts. When he was on the campaign trail he said he was going to look at each by a case-to-case basis. He also never ruled out pardoning those who had criminal convictions, who pleaded guilty to assaulting police officers, for example. Were you surprised by these blanket pardons, Senator?
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
I don't know if I can say that I was surprised, but I was certainly appalled by them. And I was glad to hear Senator Graham share that concern over pardoning people who have violently attacked police, and beat them, bear sprayed them, crushed them in doorways. People who were utterly unrepentant for assaulting law enforcement. This not only is a terrible injury – additional injury to those law enforcement officers, but also this was a crime that was committed in furtherance of trying to stop the transfer of power after Donald Trump lost the election. So, part of a bigger political crime. And it sends a message to others out there: If you use violence to keep Donald Trump in power, or use violence in the service of Donald Trump, he will have your back. I guess when he said after the Charlottesville neo-Nazi rally, vis-à-vis the Proud Boys, you know, "Stand by and stand back," or whatever his language was, he really meant it. Because he did have their back, ultimately.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, the other pardons that were in focus this past week were of course those issued by President Biden as he was on his way out of the White House – issued pardons to family members. And in 2020, here's what he said about President Trump potentially issuing pardons to his family members. Take a look.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRES.-ELECT JOE BIDEN:
It concerns me in terms of what kind of precedent it sets and how the rest of the world looks at us as a nation of laws and injustice.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, do you think that President Biden pardoning his own family members sets, as he says, “a bad precedent?”
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
Absolutely. He was right when he made those remarks. He was wrong to give these pardons. And among other things, what it says now to the Trump family and to President Trump's kids, they can engage in any kind of malfeasance, criminality, craft, whatever, and they can expect a pardon on the way out the door. That is not a message you want to send to this family, or really any family occupying the White House.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You know, it's interesting, your colleague, Senator Tim Kaine, had this to say about President Biden pardoning his family members. He says, quote, "It's harder to stand on the high ground and make a critique of the Trump pardons on January 6th when President Biden is pardoning family members." Do you agree with that? Does it make it harder to criticize President Trump's decision to issue those blanket pardons to the January 6th convicts?
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
I think it muddies the issue to a degree. But there is no comparing even the ill-considered pardon of his own family members with pardoning hundreds and hundreds of people who violently attacked police. They are not the same thing. Nevertheless, none of these precedents are good. But the most damaging, most destructive is to pardon people who are using violence against law enforcement in your service. That – I can't imagine a more destructive precedent than that one.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And of course President Biden did issue pardons to members of the January 6th Committee. You were on the January 6th Committee. It came after President Trump said that he thought the entire January 6th Committee should go to jail. What's interesting, Senator, you had been quite vocal. You didn't want President Biden to give you a pardon. You went so far as to convey that to the White House. So, what are you going to do about the fact that you've now been given a pardon? Are you going to accept it, or are you planning to look for some type of legal recourse to reject it?
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
We're looking at it. I'm not sure there's much to be done given that it went to the whole committee. This is also, I think, unprecedented. You know, in the first instance it was a result of the president threatening – wrongfully threatening to go after people who oversee this misconduct in a legitimate committee process. Nevertheless, we'll have to look at this as a committee to see if there's anything to be done.
KRISTEN WELKER:
What does that mean, you're going to “look at it”? Does that mean that you'll make a decision collectively about whether to accept these pardons?
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
We have tried to operate together as a committee. And I think the law is unclear because this is, frankly, uncharted territory, whether pardons of this nature are like a law in which you're powerless to say yea or nay, or there's something different.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It is quite murky. But it sounds like what you're saying is, "We'll look at it," but most likely, you're going to have to accept this pardon whether you like it or not.
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
It may not be actionable one way or another unless there is actually some kind of bogus effort to prosecute the committee.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Let's talk about President Trump's agenda now, particularly on immigration and the border. Congress of course passed a bill to address the border. Some of your Democratic colleagues from border states actually signed on. This is the Laken Riley Act, a bill, just so folks understand, that would effectively allow law enforcement to detain and deport those who've been convicted of theft-related crimes. In a statement explaining his vote, your colleague, Arizona’s Democratic Senator Ruben Gallego, said this. Quote, "We must give law enforcement the means to take action when illegal immigrants break the law, to prevent situations like what occurred to Laken Riley," who was of course killed by someone who was undocumented. You voted “no” on that. How do you respond to Senator Gallego?
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
Look, the administration already has the authority to detain people that have committed violent crimes for deportation. And they should. But this bill is so broad that if you're a dreamer and you take a tube of toothpaste from the store, you can be detained for deportation. That, to me, is a terrible overreach. So the president already has the authority. I don't mind confirming he has the authority, but I don't want to broaden that to be able to deport Dreamers for taking a tube of toothpaste.
KRISTEN WELKER:
What do you say to those who would argue that your vote ignores the security concerns that voters expressed in this last election?
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
I would say, look, I support the deportation of people who commit violent crime. What I don't support, are these randomized raids on people that detain American citizens, that detain members of the military, because this is what we're seeing happening around the country. We're seeing a kind of chaos, in which, in contradiction to the president’s commitment that he was going to start focused on violent criminals, they're just detaining anyone. They're going into workplaces, and anyone who looks like they should be detained is getting detained without, it seems, rhyme report reason. That doesn't make sense, I think it's inhumane. But what's more, the president also said that his top priority was bringing down the price of things. Mass deportations of farm workers in California, maybe half the workforce, are going to drive food prices through the roof. Mass deportation of construction workers are going to drive housing prices even more through the roof. So, which is it going to be? What is his real priority? Is it addressing the economic concerns of Americans? Or is it going to be this kind of mass deportation, family separation, randomized raids, which is what we're seeing?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let's talk now, Senator, about the fire disaster in your state, the debate over how to get disaster relief funds. The big question, will it be a stand-alone package, or will it have to be tied to some other priorities, like increasing the debt limit? I had this conversation with the House speaker, Mike Johnson, last weekend. Take a look.
[BEGIN TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Are you, and can you commit that California disaster relief won't have strings attached?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
No, I won't commit that, because we have a serious problem in California.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So it could be linked to the debt limit, to increasing the debt limit?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
Potentially. That's one of the things we're talking about.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
The debt limit is the nation's borrowing limit, for folks who are watching. What is your response to Speaker Johnson?
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
That is just shameful. Americans are hurting right now. When his state was hit by Katrina, I fought to get aid for Katrina. I went with a Congressional delegation a year later to see how the recovery was going and to raise issues about how slow it was, and how we needed to bring more urgency to it. I never even thought for a moment, "Okay, this is a red state. Maybe we shouldn't provide aid, or maybe we should tie it to some unrelated policy objective." I think it is shameful what he is saying. And let me say this, as a Californian, we have given more to the recovery of other states than any other state in the union. You do not want to go down this road. None of us want to go down this road. And look, I'm glad the President went to California. I urged him to go to California, he did. I felt he could not help but be moved by seeing the scope of the devastation. I think he was moved. But let's not go down the road of trying to tie unrelated policy matters when people are hurting.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Very quickly, Senator, if it was the only way to get aid to your state, do you rule out voting for something that links disaster relief to something else? Just yes or no.
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
I am not going to go down the road, for the first time ever, of conditioning aid to Americans who are hurting with unrelated policy matters. We're just not going to go there.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Finally, Senator, I have to get your take on President Trump's decision to fire 18 inspectors general. I just had this conversation with Senator Lindsey Graham. In legislation, which actually you originally sponsored, presidents have to give a 30-day notice to Congress that they are going to do this. You heard Senator Graham say, technically, he may have violated the law by not notifying Congress. Is there anything that Congress can do about this decision by President Trump?
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
There's a lot that we can do. And I have to say, as someone who introduced the Protecting Our Democracy Act, which was designed in part to protect inspector generals, to write-off this clear violation of law by saying, "Well, technically he broke the law," yeah, he broke the law. And not just any law, but a law meant to crowd out waste, fraud, and abuse. And yeah, the remedies Congress has. We have the power of the purse, we have the power right now to confirm or not confirm people for Cabinet positions that control agencies, or would control agencies whose inspector generals have just been fired. And let's remember, in his first term he fired an inspector general for providing whistleblower complaints to Congress, fired an inspector general for saying the pandemic response, his response, had flaws. The American people, if we don't have good and independent inspector generals are going to see the swamp refill. They're going to see rampant waste, fraud. They're going to see corruption. It may be the president's goal here when he's got a meme coin that's making him billions, is to remove anyone that's going to call the public attention to his malfeasance.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Senator Adam Schiff, thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it. Please come visit us again soon. When we come back, President Trump is moving swiftly to implement his new agenda. Will Congress slow it down? The panel's next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is here: NBC News Senior White House correspondent Garrett Haake; Leigh Ann Caldwell, chief Washington correspondent for Puck; former communications director for Vice President Harris and Speaker Pelosi Ashley Etienne; and former Republican Congressman Carlos Curbelo of Florida. Thanks to all of you for being here after a whirlwind first week for President Trump in the White House. Garrett, let me start with you. We learned yesterday he's going to address the Joint Session of Congress on March 4th. It comes after this week where he signed all of these executive orders, pardoned the January 6th convicts. He even hit the road to North Carolina and California. What are your sources telling you about the pace? Is it going to continue in the same way?
GARRETT HAAKE:
I'm getting tired just hearing you. Look – look buckle up. I mean, this is the way the Trump campaign operated. This is what we can expect from their White House at least for the foreseeable future. They had a – a long runway and a long time to plan what they wanted these first couple of weeks to look like. They know they have a honeymoon period, as you just heard from Senator Graham, willing to give them a little bit of grace even on things of which Republican lawmakers disagree. They want to try to take advantage of that. But I think the senator is also correct that at some point they're going to start running out of money. And that's going to make this a little bit more difficult. So you can have this shock and awe campaign on issues like immigration, on doing things like pardons that you can do with a stroke of a pen. But ultimately they're going to have to get their legislative operation in gear, and we haven't really seen that yet.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Leigh Ann, it's such a great point. And – and the reality of the calendar is looming so large over this president. Because in about 18 months, everyone's focus is going to shift to the midterms. And this is his second term, after all. So the White House, the president really feeling the pressure of that calendar that's looming over him, the honeymoon that's not going to last very long.
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL:
Yes, absolutely. The first year of a president's new term is always the most productive. And that's where they have the most political capital as well. Garrett just used the word "buckle up." That's exactly what I'm hearing from Republican aides and lawmakers on Capitol Hill. Because they expect it's going to be not only a busy but also a very difficult and complicated first year. He has a very slim majority in the – in the Congress. It's going to be very difficult for the – on the congressional level to pass his agenda because of that slim majority and what is essentially sometimes a divided Republican conference. But as far as the first week has gone, I'm told that from Republicans not only on Trump's team but also on Capitol Hill, "promises made, promises kept." They are very thrilled with how this first week went.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, to promises made, promises kept, Carlos, now the action really does turn to Capitol Hill, to Leigh Ann's point. And – and you heard Senator Graham say, "We've got to do the border first." But of course there's a big debate over that. But we're also seeing the differences between Trump 2.0 and when he first entered office when he had never governed before. He didn't know how the White House worked. Now he does have that experience and quite frankly the four years in between that he had to think about it.
CARLOS CURBELO:
Right, big advantage this time. Few people get to do this job once, sit out four years, and prepare to do it again. And you're seeing that because they knew exactly what they wanted to do, how they were going to do it. They knew they were going to get challenged too, and they're kind of prepared for that. At the end of the day though, he does need to work with the Congress if they want to enact lasting legislation, legislation changes that will withstand the test of time. It has to go through Congress. These EOs, we've seen they get challenged in the court –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yes.
CARLOS CURBELO:
– new administration comes, wipes them away. We're seeing that now. So it's important for Republicans to learn from the lessons of 2017 when it was the same scenario. Republican trifecta, whole year without a major piece of legislation. That tax cut and JOBS Act was not passed till the end of 2017. So what Senator Graham is saying is right. We need to get something on the board now, show the people we're serious, we can get something done, and then use that momentum to do other things.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Ashley, you know, it's so interesting because there's a big debate in the Democratic Party right now. How much should they be working with President Trump on some of these agenda items like the border which is part of the reason why he won, and like bringing down prices? Hakeem Jeffries who I interviewed last week said, yeah, he's open to working with President Trump on that. What are folks telling you? And what do you think Democrats should do moving forward strategically so that they're more competitive in the midterms and the next presidential?
ASHLEY ETIENNE:
Yes. The posture's going to be to work with the president where we can. And – and Hakeem Jeffries has demonstrated he can work with President Trump, in his first term. But where we disagree, where Democrats are going to stand their ground – you know, I know the White House and Republicans are saying "promises kept." But the one that's not kept is on the economy. The president said he had a mandate. He said day one he was going to lower prices. Here we are almost a week in, 100 executive orders later, and nothing substantial on the economy. In fact, he's walking it all back saying, "It's too tough. It's too hard to lower prices. I can't guarantee that the American people won't pay more based on my tariffs." So this is creating an opportunity for Democrats. They're going to have to hold Trump accountable to his word on lowering prices. And in fact, I would even suggest they take a playbook out of – out of Trump's playbook which is go across the country, every corner of the country holding his feet to the fire and making this point, you know, or raising this question, “Is he on your side or is he not on your side? I thought he said he was going to lower costs and he actually hasn't." So that would be my mandate to the Democratic Party to stay laser-focused on his promises and hold him accountable.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It's so interesting. Because more than any other issue he will likely be judged on whether he can bring down prices, Garrett, and yet one of the big promises kept that he did and the most controversial was to blanket pardon all of the January 6th convicts. You have reporting that it was actually a rather last-minute decision, right?
GARRETT HAAKE:
Yes, that's right. I mean, Donald Trump had been campaigning on the idea he would pardon at least some of the January 6th defendants for years. And when he talked to you about it, he had suggested that this would be done on a case-by-case basis. My reporting is that there was not exactly the patience necessary to go through this on a case-by-case basis. He later said it would be too cumbersome. Ultimately, they made the decision to go big here. And I think you're going to see this across the issues, including confirmations, which we'll talk about later. But Trump is personally willing to kind of take the political risk and the political hits on these things. And I think you saw it play out even in your interview with Senator Graham. "I don't agree. But what are you going to do about it? Nothing." They sort of hope that there will be enough other chum in the water that people will move on from the things they don't like and focus on the things that they do. And I think that's sort of what you're seeing with those pardons.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Carlos –
CARLOS CURBELO:
Look, I think that there's no question in my mind that President Biden's pardon fest at the end of his presidency surely influenced the incoming president. I know there was a lot of doubt, consternation inside the team as to how to handle some of these most egregious offenders. And I think when President Biden did what he did, Trump just said, "Hey, what the hell. Let's just –
ASHLEY ETIENNE:
Sorry to step in here, Congressman. I mean, the reality is we have to level set with the American people. These – these two pardons are not the same thing. Trump went around the country promising retribution. So Joe Biden to some degree tried to protect those who were on Donald Trump's enemy list. You know, I agree with Senator Graham. This sets a deadly, dangerous precedent to pardon those who committed such an egregious – the most egregious crime against American democracy, not only is it an affront to our institutions, but to those men and women that put their lives on the line. So that's really the question back to the senators. What are you going to actually do about it?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, Leigh Ann, what are they going to do about it? There's some talk about reviewing pardon power.
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL:
Yes. There's talk about it. But again, most of that talk is coming from Democrats. Democrats do not control Congress right now. Maybe Republicans will get to it eventually, as Lindsey Graham said, if it continues to happen and the pardon power continues to be abused. But this is not a top priority on Congress's agenda right now.
CARLOS CURBELO:
And to be clear, the whole thing is horrible. All – all of the pardons are horrible. But I think the difference is that Joe Biden said he was different. And he didn't end up being all that different.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, well, guys, stand by. Speaking of pardons, when we come back the presidential pardon is in the spotlight this week as we're discussing. And it's in the spotlight in our Meet The Press Minute which is next. Stay with us.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. Within a single day of transferring power, President Trump and former President Biden issued an unprecedented wave of pardons. Another moment when pardons were in focus: back in 1974, when President Gerald Ford granted a full, free, and absolute pardon to former President Richard Nixon for any crimes he might've committed during the Watergate Scandal. Just an hour after Ford's announcement, Democratic Senator Edmund Muskie joined Meet the Press with this warning.
[BEGIN TAPE]
SEN. EDMUND MUSKIE:
Pardons are usually granted at the point when the - the accused is in jeopardy of punishment. And we've not reached that point in Mr. Nixon's case. If we were to, you know, follow this precedent to grant pardons to people even before they are indicted, we would indeed broaden that power, I think to a dangerous extent. And I would not welcome that, as a lawyer, I would not welcome that kind of broadening of the pardoning power. You don't pardon until the accused is in jeopardy of punishment, going to jail or otherwise.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, President Trump's Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth, was confirmed by a rare tie-breaking vote. Are any of his other cabinet nominees in trouble? More with the panel next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is still here. So, we are gearing up for another very busy week, Garrett, of confirmation hearings. RFK for Health and Human Services, Kash Patel for FBI Director, and Tulsi Gabbard, who's been tapped for director of national intelligence. And you have some new reporting about the White House's strategy to really try to turn up the heat to make sure they get the votes they need on some of these controversial picks.
GARRETT HAAKE:
Yeah. It's part of White House strategy. They expect some of these outside groups to start sort of spinning up in defense of Tulsi Gabbard, and also kind of as a warning to people who might oppose her. They view this as pass/fail for senators. "You're with us on everybody, or you're against us on everybody." You don't get bonus points for voting for 70% of their nominees. But also, when I talked to a senior White House advisor – or, excuse me, a senior White House official yesterday, made this point pretty clearly that Gabbard has to step up too. They want to see her essentially follow Pete Hegseth's playbook and fight harder for this job, show that she understands the seriousness of what she's being asked to do in top of these intel agencies. And hearing from both White House officials and Hill sources, there's a lot of expectation that this hearing will be very critical. If she gets through the hearing and gets to the floor, that's one thing. But if she stumbles in this hearing she could be in serious trouble.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, Leigh Ann, I thought it was fascinating that Senator Lindsey Graham said he's a we'll see. He didn't say, "I'm a yes." And he's one of the senators who's been most vocal about saying that President Trump deserves his picks to be in place. In fact, Senator Lankford said he's a yes on Tulsi Gabbard. What are you hearing about the top concerns in her uphill battle?
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL:
Yeah. As Garrett said, this hearing's going to be extremely critical. Not only the public part of the hearing, but remember, this is in front of the Intelligence Committee. So, they are going to adjourn to go into a classified session. We will not have access to that. But that also is going to be extremely important for these senators. I have heard that some of her meetings with some senators have not gone particularly well, and there are a lot of concerns. And the senators we're looking out for are the ones who are most concerned with national security, where this is a top priority of theirs. And Lindsey Graham falls in that category.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. I mean, Carlos, it is fascinating. The national security concerns, the concerns over her two meetings with Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, the dictator there. This is really becoming a bit of a loyalty test for Republicans in the Senate. What are you hearing?
CARLOS CUBELO:
Well remember Kristen, since the advent of the Tea Party, the greatest fear for any congressional Republican is a primary challenge. So, this is a real problem for a lot of Republicans. However, there's another threat out there, which is the 2026 midterms. And some of these Senators will have tough reelection fights. I know in the House a lot of people are thinking about 2026 already. So, the squeeze is on for Republicans. Sure, there's Trump loyalty, but there's also how viable are they in general elections? And Tulsi Gabbard, who I think will do well in terms of her temperament, the substance of her answers, that might be a different question, because she's going to get some very tough questions. But this might be an opportunity for some Republican senators to distinguish themselves.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. Ashley, what are you expecting to see from Democrats? Because there's a big debate over whether Democrats were robust enough in their line of questioning to Pete Hegseth. Now, I've been talking to Democrats who say, "Yes, we were. This is a Republican show." But what are you hearing in terms of what they're gearing up for this week?
ASHLEY ETIENNE:
Well, I mean, it's very clear that competency and character don't matter anymore, especially not when it comes to these nominees. I think that is what I mostly hear from Democrats, is they're going to seize on those two points. As it relates to Tulsi Gabbard, I think the concern there is that she's going to be in charge of our national securities and there's all these questions about whether or not she's compromised. You can't have someone in charge of our national securities that is not beyond reproach in – when it comes to the question of their loyalty to the country. So, Democrats are going to seize on that opportunity and continue to drive that point. I also think it creates an opportunity for some Republicans that wanted, to the Congressman's point, want to distinguish themselves from the president to say no to Gabbard. Not only because of these questions, but because she's a former Democrat. I mean, all of these other issues that make it very easy to say no to her.
GARRETT HAAKE:
I don't know that there's a huge appetite to break from President Trump right now among Republicans.
ASHLEY ETIENNE:
I'm thinking of, like Senator Tillis, and others that might want to, you know –
GARRETT HAAKE:
Well, Tillis is another one who's in cycle. I mean, he's got two problems. He's going to have to not get primaried by, like, Michael Whatley, who Trump's been talking up recently, the RNC chair. And then he's got to run again, if he survives a primary, in a 50/50, you know, state. A general election that would be extremely competitive. So, Tillis is in a really tough spot. And he's someone, by the way, who this White House official who I spoke to yesterday indicated, you know, if Tillis was trying to get a pocket veto on Pete Hegseth to basically get him out of the running without voting no, that's not how this is going to work. You're going to have to be willing to vote no on the floor. And that is a very – a bridge too far, frankly, for some of these Republicans.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Leigh Ann, a lot of people were on pins and needles: Republicans, the president. What was Tillis going to do, to Garrett's point. McConnell was a no vote. I got a text message from Steve Bannon, Trump ally, former Trump White House official, who said, "McConnell is going to face some repercussions for that politically speaking." What do you make – Garrett dismisses it –
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– but talk about that box.
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL:
I dismiss that too, for McConnell specifically. He is in his last two years, most likely, of serving. He has – he cares – he's one of those national security people who cares a lot about it. He's not worried about any sort of political repercussions. He is in his YOLO mode. And –
GARRETT HAAKE:
It's an image that I won't shake.
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL:
But there are – and the thing here, so they can lose three Republicans. JD Vance can be the tiebreaker. The thing is no one wants to be that – and you can find the three: McConnell, Collins, Murkowski. No one wants to be that fourth that sinks a nominee. So it's going to be three, or it's going to be six.
GARRETT HAAKE:
Yeah, seven maybe. Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I mean, Matt Gaetz after he was sunk, there was a thinking that, "Can we cross him again?" I mean, McConnell might be the only one in YOLO mode, in other words.
CARLOS CUBELO:
Look, at some point some of these members are going to break with the president on some issue. I think the sooner they do it, probably the better. Kind of rip off the Band-Aid, figure out what that looks like. And also send a message to the president that he has to work with them, right? Because there's all these confirmations, but then there's also legislation. And specifically when they start working on tax reform, that's going to be a very messy fight.
ASHLEY ETIENNE:
And then who's going to remember two years from now how you voted on Tulsi Gabbard as a nominee, a former Democrat, right? Like, I don't know that many Republicans are going to hold that against them –
KRISTEN WELKER:
But Ashley, let me ask you, because there's going to be a lot of focus on RFK Jr. as well, for example. And the questioning there – and one of the big questions people have, will Democrats try to expose some of the divides between him on an issue like abortion, for example? Will they go there? What do you think?
ASHLEY ETIENNE:
Well, I mean, abortion's an interesting issue. It’ somewhat nullified in this last election. You had Republican women voting for their reproductive rights and then voting for Donald Trump. I'm not so sure that that issue is as potent as we'd like for it to be going into this next cycle. But I don't project that – or predict that folks would vote against RFK. I think he's going to sail through.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So you think Gabbard's the one who –
ASHLEY ETIENNE:
I think Gabbard's the one.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– has the most uphill battle?
ASHLEY ETIENNE:
And my advice to Democrats would be hyper-focus on her, and make it a national security issue. This is not about politics. This is about the security of our nation and our allies.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, guys. Thank you so much. That is all for today. Thank you for watching. We'll be back next week, because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press, and go Birds!