KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: campaign kickoff.
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
Oh, you don’t like that bill huh?
KRISTEN WELKER:
A combative President Biden makes his case for a second term, taking on concerns over his age and threats to democracy.
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
You can’t love your country only when you win.
KRISTEN WELKER:
While Donald Trump becomes the presumptive GOP nominee after Nikki Haley drops out, but holds off endorsing.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
November 5th is going to go down as the single most important day in the history of our country.
AMB. NIKKI HALEY:
This is now his time for choosing.
KRISTEN WELKER:
How will Trump and Biden battle in the next 8 months?
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
Everything Joe Biden touches turns to [EXPLETIVE].
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
When he says he wants to be a dictator, I believe him.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Will they face off on a debate stage?
VICE PRES. KAMALA HARRIS:
That’s a choice that’s going to be decided upon soon and we’ll keep you posted.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Could a third-party candidate act as a spoiler? My guests this morning: Democratic Senator Raphael Warnock of Georgia, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and Democratic Congressman Adam Schiff of California, now competing for a U.S. Senate seat this fall. Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Senior White House Correspondent Kelly O'Donnell, Politico "Playbook" co-author Eugene Daniels, Marc Morial, the president of the National Urban League, and Republican strategist Sara Fagen. Welcome to Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest running show in television history. This is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. The general election race for the White House has officially started this week. And on Saturday, President Biden and former President Trump faced off in battleground Georgia, a state Mr. Biden won in 2020 by fewer than 12,000 votes. Mr. Biden wasted no time taking aim at the former president, including for hosting Hungarian autocrat Viktor Orbán at his Mar-a-Lago club on Friday.
[START TAPE]
PRES. JOE BIDEN: Here's a guy who’s kicking off a general election campaign in the road up with Marjorie Taylor Greene. It can tell you a lot about a person who he keeps company with. And yesterday he was hosting at his club, Viktor Orbán, who says he doesn't think democracy works. When he says he wants to be a dictator, I believe him.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And new this morning: NBC News is first to report that Biden's re-election effort brought in $10 million dollars in the 24 hours following his State of the Union address – a record haul for his campaign. The Biden team is leaning into its early cash edge against former President Trump launching a new ad that takes on the issue of his age directly while contrasting his record with Mr. Trump’s:
[START TAPE]
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
Look, I'm not a young guy. That's no secret. But here's the deal: I understand how to get things done for the American people. Donald Trump believes the job of the president is to take care of Donald Trump. I believe the job of the president is to fight for you, the American people, and that's what I'm doing.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
The ad is the first in a $30 million dollar blitz that will target key battleground states over the next six weeks. Biden's Georgia visit follows a stop in Pennsylvania on Friday. Next week he'll barnstorm key states including New Hampshire, Wisconsin and Michigan. Vice President Harris was in Arizona and Nevada this weekend and cabinet secretaries are hitting the road to sell President Biden's agenda as well. 60 miles away from President Biden's event in Atlanta in Rome, Georgia, former President Trump painted a dark picture of America calling the press "criminals" and mocking President Biden for having a stutter.
[START TAPE]
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
Two nights ago we all heard crooked Joe's angry, dark, hate filled rant, of a State of the Union address, wasn't it? Didn't it bring us together? Remember he said I'm going to bring the country t-t-t-t-together. I'm gonna bring it together. Everything Joe Biden touches turns to [EXPLETIVE]. Everything.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And joining me now is Democratic Senator Raphael Warnock of Georgia, who campaigned with the president on Saturday in Atlanta. Senator Warnock, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK:
Good morning. Happy Sunday morning to you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Happy Sunday morning to you. Thank you so much for being here. Well, you just heard what former President Trump had to say about President Biden, an indication that this campaign is already shaping up to be a brutal one. How should President Biden respond to those types of attacks, Senator?
SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK:
Well, sadly, if I were to ask you, "Are you surprised, is anybody surprised by what we heard coming out of the mouth of the former president," the answer is no. This is who Donald Trump is. And I have to tell you, as the father of a five-year-old and a seven-year-old, it's terrible when you have to bleep the words from a former president. But Joe Biden is tried, tested, and true. He's seen this nonsense before. He saw it and experienced it the other night with the other side heckling in the middle of the president's speech. And he pressed on because he's not focused on himself. Unlike his challenger, he's not focused on what this election means for him, as Donald Trump runs from the jailhouse. He's focused on what this election means for the American people, the people of Georgia. And he spoke with power the other night about the future.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, let's talk about your home state now, Georgia. President Biden won it narrowly in 2020 by fewer than 12,000 votes. Now, polls show that he's actually trailing former President Trump. You're not going to be on the ballot this year. What do you say to Democrats who say they are afraid that Georgia is out of reach?
SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK:
I say, "Soldier on." As someone who has had his name on the ballot in Georgia five times in three years, I know a little bit about what it means to run in Georgia. And the road to the White House leads straight through Georgia. He won by 12,00 votes or less than 12,000 votes. Votes, by the way, the ex-president tried to steal. But he's president of the United States, and Georgia's going to show up in a strong way for Joe Biden.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you about this twist we learned about this week. No Labels is reportedly considering Georgia's former Republican Lieutenant Governor Geoff Duncan to potentially lead a "unity" ticket. How could that impact the results of Georgia? Could that make it all but nearly impossible for Joe Biden to win?
SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK:
Listen, it's still relatively early in the campaign season. And I think that the more we hear from the Donald Trump that we just heard from a little while ago, the clearer it's going to be to people that, at the end of the day, this is a binary choice. And the question is, "Do you want the America of January 5th that sent its first Black senator from Georgia, its first Jewish senator from Georgia to the United States Senate? Or do you want the America of January 6th, pushed forward by a president who continues to advance the big lie about the election, and behind that lie is the lie that this new multiracial democracy does not get to determine the future of the country?” He's looking backward. Joe Biden is looking forward. And I think, at the end of the day, the people of Georgia will see that choice, that binary choice very clearly, and they'll do the right thing for Joe Biden, as they did for me.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But, Senator, if No Labels were to run a unity ticket, one that included Geoff Duncan, could that not spoil the race for Joe Biden? You don't deny that, do you?
SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK:
Listen, I – I think that the people of Georgia are, at the end of the day, asking, "Who's in the fight for them?" And as I sat the other night and listened to the president's speech, I'll tell you, I said to my colleagues, "I don't know if that was Joe Biden or Joe Lewis," because the man came out fighting, and he never let up, and he's not going to let up between now and November. I think the people of Georgia will recognize that when it came time to forgive the student debt of people who'd just been mired in debt, young people who have had a mortgage just trying to deal with their future, that Joe Biden, with one hand behind his back, with the Republicans suing him, did $138 billion of student debt relief, that's closing the racial wealth gap. The man's got receipts.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK:
And the people of Georgia will show up for him in November.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, let me ask you about this. Neither President Biden nor Vice President Harris have committed to President Biden debating Mr. Trump. Do you think the American people deserve to see these two candidates debate in a general election?
SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK:
Oh, listen, I think the debate is already underway. And, again, this is a binary choice.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But, Senator, should they formally –
SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK:
The president is tried, tested, and true –
KRISTEN WELKER:
--debate? You know what I'm asking, Senator. Should there be a formal debate between President Biden and former President Trump?
SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK:
I support debates, but I'm not a part of the president's campaign. I represent the people of Georgia in the United States Senate, and I think we're going to hear a fierce argument in the months ahead, and the contrast couldn't be clearer.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let's talk about the war in the Middle East now. In his State of the Union address, President Biden announced that the U.S. is building a port to get more humanitarian aid into Gaza. It could take as long as 60 days. Doctors Without Borders called it, quote, "a glaring distraction from the real problem: Israel's indiscriminate and disproportionate military campaign and punishing siege." Is sending more aid enough, Senator, when innocent civilians are being killed and are dying every day?
SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK:
Listen, we have got to find our way quickly to the path that leads to peace. That's why the other night on the floor of the United States Senate, I pushed for a ceasefire. I think the president – I know the president is working hard to get to a ceasefire. Mr. Netanyahu has got to recognize that we've already seen the deaths of some 30,000 Palestinians, many of them innocent women, men, and children. You know, I think about this not just as a senator, and even not just as a pastor, but as a father. Last night, as I was putting my own children to bed and dealing with my son as he was dealing with an incessant cough, I thought about parents in Gaza. It's a terrible thing, as a parent, when your kid is sick. And there I was, just dealing with a cold, and I thought about the fact that there are parents in Gaza right now who are dealing with the ordinary challenges that children deal with, who have seen amputations of children without anesthesia. There are children who are wounded with no living weapons – with no living relatives. And so, we've got to find our way to peace quickly –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, you –
SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK:
– all while, at the same time, trying to get humanitarian aid in there as quickly as possible.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You take me to my next point. In an interview with MSNBC's Jonathan Capehart, President Biden said he is, quote, "Never going to leave Israel." Do you think there should be a red line when it comes to supporting Israel?
SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK:
Well, I think that we've got to continue to lean on Mr. Netanyahu. We've got to insist that – that this cannot continue in this way. The way a war is carried out is important.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But do you have a red line, Senator –
SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK:
And I can tell you that the –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you have a red line, Senator?
SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK:
Well –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Is there a red line for you, particularly when it comes to going into Rafah, for example?
SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK:
I stated that very clearly the other night on the floor of the United States Senate, that I think that to go into Rafah – the humanitarian experts, the folks who are trying to get aid in, the folks who have no political dog in this fight, have said that if they go into Rafah, you could lose up to 85,000 more Palestinians in six months. I think that that is morally unjustifiable and unconscionable.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK:
And as we make our way to the holy season of Ramadan and Passover, thereafter, I hope people will dig deep into the moral cisterns dug by ancestors, that they will reach toward the highest ideals in our humanity, center the children, and find our way to that path that leads to peace.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, finally, let me just ask you about another developing story in your state. Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis could be thrown off of Donald Trump's 2020 election interference case in Georgia after admitting that she had that personal relationship with the lead prosecutor, though she argues there was no impropriety. Do you think that relationship undercuts the integrity of the case, and should she step down?
SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK:
Listen, we are watching our judicial process play out. And I know that there are folks, unfortunately, in the state of Georgia, politicians, who are trying to put their hand on the scale. I'm not going to pile on. I'm not going to add to that. I – I – I will watch this process play out, and we will see where the chips fall. But at the end of the day, here's what Donald Trump deserves: he deserves to have a fair trial before a jury of his peers, and in this case, it's voters of Georgia. And we need to see that play out.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And given that, do you think that the optics have become so complicated around this that Fani Willis should step down for the better good of the case that you just talked about?
SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK:
Well, listen, I think this case is being played out before a judge, and that judge will have to make a decision not based on optics but based on the law. That's the wonderful thing about America: We believe that no one is above the law, including Donald Trump.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Senator Raphael Warnock, thank you so much for joining us on this Sunday. We really appreciate it. And when we come back, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. More than two years into the war in Ukraine, the death toll and desperation are growing as Ukraine's troops are rationing ammunition. While Congress debates what to do next, $60 billion in aid to Ukraine is stalled on Capitol Hill. In his State of the Union address, President Biden pleaded with Congress to act.
[START TAPE]
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN:
If anybody in this room thinks Putin will stop with Ukraine, I assure you he will not. I say this to Congress: we have to stand up to Putin. Send me a bipartisan national security bill. History is literally watching.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Joining me now is Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina. Senator Graham, welcome back to Meet the Press –
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Thank you. Thank you very much.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Thanks for being here. We are –
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yes, ma'am.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– going to get to Ukraine. I want to start –
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Good.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– with Israel. I want to get your response to how President Biden reacted to MSNBC's Jonathan Capehart about that hot mic moment where he was overheard saying he's going to have a come-to-Jesus moment with Prime Minister Netanyahu. Here's what he said.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Okay.
[START TAPE]
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN:
He’s hurting – in my view, he's hurting Israel more than helping Israel by making the rest of the world –it's contrary to what Israel stands for and I think it's a big mistake.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, do you agree that Prime Minister Netanyahu is hurting Israel by not doing more to address the humanitarian crisis?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
No, I really don't. I'd like to help the humanitarian crisis but when the president of the United States talks about Bibi and not Hamas, we're missing the boat here. When you talk about red lines against Israel, we should be talking about red lines against Iran. Israel's not killing American soldiers. Iran is, through their proxies. So, I would urge President Biden to hold the great Satan, Iran, accountable for killing soldiers in Jordan and attacking shipping. So, yeah, I think he's got it backwards. We should be all-in in helping Israel. We should try to help the humanitarian crisis. But don't say or do anything that would empower our enemy.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And President Biden does spend plenty of time talking about Hamas. The issue here is, is there not more that Israel can do to help the humanitarian crisis--
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
There –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– open up a crossing –
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Right.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– offer their own port –
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
There will be.
KRISTEN WELKER:
–in the area–
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Just stay tuned in that area. I think Israel will be coming up with some sea corridor relief ideas. But the line that struck me the most in the State of the Union: He told Hamas, "If you release the hostages, the war will be over." I literally about fell out of my seat. Is the president saying that if the hostages are released by Hamas, they can stay in power? That ends the conflict? I want to be very clear about this: President Trump believes it's non negotiable when it comes to Hamas. They have to be destroyed militarily. They can't be in charge. So, I'm challenging the Biden administration today to clear this up. You cannot allow Hamas to stay in power. You can't allow them to have six brigades to do October the 7th again. So, the hostage issue is important. But we have to have a nonnegotiable policy when it comes to destroying the military capability of Hamas.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And President Biden said that he does stand firmly behind that objective –
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Well, he shouldn't have said, “The war is over if you release the hostages." It will not be over.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And that hostage negotiation, that potential temporary ceasefire, those talks have currently stalled.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yes.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let's move on to Ukraine, Senator--
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Right.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You have always supported aid to Ukraine.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah--
KRISTEN WELKER:
You've argued it's critical--
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah. Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
--to keeping Putin from invading--
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
--its NATO allies. Now, Former President Trump has said that he would only support it if it came in the form of a loan. And that's not typically how the United States supports our allies. Why do you think that's the best course of action right now, Senator?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
We're $34 trillion in debt. Nobody wants to help Ukraine more than I do. But President Trump is trying to do two things here: help an ally but tell the American people, "Pay us back if you can." I think most Americans would like to help Ukraine. But the idea of giving and never being repaid should be off the table. He mentioned this to me, I think, playing golf. "Why don't we make it a loan?" Well, we did that in World War II with Britain. So, when you're $34 trillion in debt, you need to be thinking about the American people, just not allies. So, I think the loan is the way to get the aid to Ukraine. He will be speaking, President Trump, to the speaker tomorrow or Tuesday about turning the aid into a loan. It'd be forgivable, no interest. They have tons of minerals in Ukraine. "You get back on your feet, try to pay us back."
KRISTEN WELKER:
Trump told you he's going to reach out to the speaker?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yes.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Are you confident this is something that the White House would sign on to, given the fact that--
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I can't imagine--
KRISTEN WELKER:
--a loan?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
--any member of Congress would object to trying to get our allies to pay us back when we're $34 trillion in debt if they can. We're talking about a waivable, no-interest loan. But the idea of not changing when you're this far in debt-- I think most people would welcome it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me get you to respond to something that Alaska Senator Lisa Murkowski had to say. She said the following about the influence of Former President Trump. Quote, "Let's just not even exist as a Senate then if we have to ask permission from Donald Trump for everything we do. Let's just do our work." Is Donald Trump ultimately calling the shots in the Senate, Senator Graham?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
No. I mean, I've voted against things that, you know, he doesn't like. The point is, to Lisa: Would you support the idea that our allies should pay us back if they can when we're $34 trillion in debt? This is America First in action. It's not isolationism, but it is considering the needs of the American people. I hope to be going to Ukraine soon, and I hope to be able to tell them, “The aid is coming. It will be in the form of a loan. Pay us back if you can." I want Russia to know: If you think Ukraine's going to be out of this fight, you're dead wrong.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You know, Senator Mitt Romney said that Ukraine's economy has just been devastated, that there's no possible way they'll be able to--
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
--pay back a loan. What if they can't pay back this loan, Senator?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Well, then we’re not – then it'll be waivable, no interest. We're not trying to make money here. We're trying to protect the interest of the American people. They're sitting on some of the most rich mineral deposits in the history of Europe. If they can get back on their feet with our help, see if they can pay us back. Same with Taiwan. So, Senator Romney, what's wrong with asking people to pay us back, if they can?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Uh-huh. Let me move to the border now, another area where Former President Trump has had an influence. There was a deal that came together--
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Right.
KRISTEN WELKER:
--in the Senate, never got an actual vote. You were very supportive of it initially. Here's--
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
–what you said about it in January.
[START TAPE]
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
This is the best chance I've seen since I've been up here to have true border security reform. To those who think that if President Trump wins, which I hope he does, that we can get a better deal, you won't.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
In his State of the Union address, President Biden accused Trump of effectively –
SEN.LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
--playing politics and derailing this deal. Is he right, Senator? You really supported this and then turned against it.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Well, there was no real parole reform. The man who killed Laken Riley was paroled in the United States. He came from Venezuela. So, President Biden is apologizing for calling him an illegal immigrant, the alleged murderer. President Trump went to Georgia to meet with the family of Miss Riley to apologize for a country that allowed the killer to get in. So, I voted against the bill because it was insufficient on parole. But there will be border security attached to the loan idea.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, couple of things. I mean, President Biden said that the term that is now used--
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
--is undocumented. But let me just get back to this--
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Which really pisses me off.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But, Senator, let me just get back to this deal, though, because--
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
--the border security union endorsed this bill. Isn't something better--
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
But they--
KRISTEN WELKER:
--than nothing given the crisis that you are talking about?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Good, good, good question. They also endorsed my idea: You know, have a break glass moment at 5,000. When you get to 5,000 a day, you shut down the border. The Border Patrol union said 1,000 a day is a crisis. Five thousand is a disaster. So, the bill can be made better. There will be a bill. Remain in Mexico is the key. The Border Patrol told me that if you go back to Remain in Mexico, 70% of it goes away. I think the House will pass the Remain in Mexico bill.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But you know better than I do, Remain in Mexico is dead on arrival in the Senate.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
No, it's not. No, it's not.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well that – at this current point in time--
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
We'll see.
KRISTEN WELKER:
--it doesn't seem to have the votes--
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
We'll see.
KRISTEN WELKER:
--in the Senate.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
We'll see.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let's move on to something that happened this weekend, at Mar-a-Lago on Friday. Donald Trump met with Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yes.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Just for our viewers, to remind them, Orbán believes that liberal democracy doesn't work. He's packed Hungary's courts with loyalists. He seized control of the media outlets. He's friends with Putin. He's friends with Xi. This is what Trump said about Orbán on Friday.
[START TAPE]
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
There's nobody that's better, smarter, or a better leader than Viktor Orbán. He's fantastic. As you know, he's the Prime Minister of Hungary and does a great job. He's a non-controversial figure because he said, "This is the way it's going to be, and that's the end of it," right? He's the boss.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you think Viktor Orbán's leadership is something that Trump aspires to in a second term?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I think the best way to judge President Trump's second term is by what he did in his first term. You know, Russia didn't invade on President Trump's watch. Hamas didn't try to destroy Israel on his watch. The Afghanistan – theTaliban weren't in charge on his watch. So, here's what I would say: If you're worried about the world being on fire, you're right. If you think Joe Biden's policies lack a deterrence and he's weak in the eyes of our enemies, you're right. So, if you want to get the world back in order, you'd better vote for Trump.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But you know that former President Trump has talked about being a dictator on day one. He said, "It's nice to have a strong man running our country." He's talked about retribution in a second term, Senator.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah, you know what he said? Retribution would be success. Did a – you know, who knocked Trump off the ballot in Colorado? Who knocked Trump off the ballot in Maine--
KRISTEN WELKER:
But--
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
There's a liberal jihad against everything Trump. I'm not worried about Trump--
KRISTEN WELKER:
But those were Republicans, though.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
--destroying democracy.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Those were the, those were –
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I'm worried Joe Biden is destroying the world.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Those were Republicans, and the Supreme Court--
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah, but--
KRISTEN WELKER:
-- has now put him back on the ballot, as you know.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
But the point you're trying to ask me: Is Trump bad for this country?
KRISTEN WELKER:
No.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I would say that--
KRISTEN WELKER:
I'm asking you--
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
--Joe Biden's policies are bad for America--
KRISTEN WELKER:
But--
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
--and have got the world on fire.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, just to be very clear, though. He is aligning himself with Viktor Orbán. He is--
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Who is a member of NATO – who just voted to –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Who has--
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
– let Sweden in.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Reluctantly, though. But he has--
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Orbán is not on the ballot.
KRISTEN WELKER:
--killed that democratic norm--
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Let's have a debate. Okay--
KRISTEN WELKER:
He has rolled back democratic norms in Hungary.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
--Orbán is not on the ballot. You've got to vote between Trump and Biden. Biden has screwed the world up every way you can: broken borders, the world's on fire. If he really is back, if he's with it, if he's energetic, get in a room with Donald Trump and debate. Take questions from people like yourself, rather than reading a teleprompter. If there's ever an election in the history of America that deserves debate between the two candidates, it's this election. Trump just told me, the campaign just told me, "Anytime, anywhere. Let's debate."
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, but very quickly, just one more point before we move on--
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Sure.
KRISTEN WELKER:
--to my very last question.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Okay.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Trump has said to Putin that he would welcome him invading a NATO country, Senator, if they didn't pay their bills. Should people not hear that rhetoric--
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Right. Right.
KRISTEN WELKER:
--and feel as though he is potentially aligning himself with the type of leadership--
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Right.
KRISTEN WELKER:
--that Orbán has shown?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
That was in reference to NATO paying their fair share. There are 19 nations that don't pay the 2% they're supposed to. When Trump was president--
KRISTEN WELKER:
But he's inviting him--
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
--he had a four-- let me finish.
KRISTEN WELKER:
--to invade a NATO country.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
No, no, that's not-- you shouldn't say that. The point is Russia didn't invade Ukraine when Trump was president. The world - the Arabs recognized Israel through the Abraham Accords when Trump was president. If you want to look at who's the most stable person for the world, Biden versus Trump, Trump wins in a landslide.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, and just to be very clear, you mentioned a lot of different things. I mean, you talk about the Afghanistan withdrawal. That's something that Trump had actually put into place before Biden even got into office--
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
But he didn't do it. Biden did it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, because it happened when he was in office. But let's move on to TikTok very quickly--
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Okay.
KRISTEN WELKER:
--Senator. The House is planning to vote, as you know--
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
--this coming week on a bill that would force the Chinese company to sell TikTok or face being banned.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Trump initially favored banning TikTok. Now, he's opposed. He's expressing his opposition. Do you support banning TikTok? Where do you fall?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I think the goal is to make sure American data that TikTok collects doesn't fall in the hands of the Communist Chinese Party. I'm really conflicted here. I know this about social media: They're ruining America. Sexual predators abound on these sites. You can't sue social media companies. There's no regulatory body. That's what I'm focused on. Banning TikTok, maybe that's necessary to protect American data from China. But if you can find a way to avoid that, that'd be good, too.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You were a strong supporter of it in 2020, though. Do you no longer support it?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
No, no, I understand people like TikTok. I would like to keep TikTok running but not have our data used by the Communist Chinese Party.
KRISTEN WELKER:
How would you vote on this?
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I don't know yet. I mean, I'm just being honest with you--
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I am definitely conflicted. But one thing I'm not conflicted about: Every social media company should be sued if they do damage to you and your family. They're protected from lawsuits. Section 230 needs to go.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Senator Lindsey Graham--
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
--thank you so much for being here. Appreciate it. And when we come back, Democratic Congressman Adam Schiff of California, hoping to be the next senator from the state, joins me next.
[START TAPE]
REP. ADAM SCHIFF:
It looks like we're going to the general, ladies and gentlemen! Within hours of our announcement, a certain Kevin McCarthy kicked me off the Intelligence Committee. Trump would attack me after rally after rally. And I think all those things were basically what we would call “Wednesday.” But you had my back every step of the way.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. Democratic Congressman Adam Schiff was the top vote-getter in this week's primary to replace the late California Senator Dianne Feinstein, advancing to the November runoff, facing off against Republican Steve Garvey, a former Major League Baseball player. And Congressman Adam Schiff joins me now. Congressman Schiff, welcome back to Meet the Press.
REP. ADAM SCHIFF:
Great to be with you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, it is so great to have you. Let's talk about your race. Your former opponent, Congresswoman Katie Porter, is now saying that the California Senate race was, quote, "rigged." That's of course a term that Trump used to describe the 2020 election. Now, Porter says she was responding to, quote, "an onslaught of billions spending – billionaires spending millions," against her. What do you make of her using the term "rigged?"
REP. ADAM SCHIFF:
Well, first of all, Katie Porter ran a very tough campaign, as did Barbara Lee. They both called to extend very gracious congratulations this week. So I have nothing but respect for my colleagues. That term "rigged," though, is a very loaded term in the era of Trump. It connotes fraud or ballot-stuffing, false claims like those of Donald Trump. And I think what's remarkable is Democrats very quickly rallied to say, "No, we don't use that language. The election was legitimate." And this is a sharp contrast to how the Republican Party treats allegations of rigged elections, which is they've gone along with them. Indeed, they're urging President Trump to pardon the January 6 insurrectionists if he ever got a chance. So, very different reaction among the parties to any kind of challenge to our democracy or suggestion that elections are illegitimate. But look, my opponents have been very gracious, and I have nothing but respect for them.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So Congressman, just to be very clear, Katie Porter conceded when she called you?
REP. ADAM SCHIFF:
She congratulated me, which I certainly viewed as a concession. And she was very gracious in her message to me. And I appreciated the call. Look, I have been on both sides of elections, winning them and losing them. And it's tough.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
REP. ADAM SCHIFF:
We're in a tough business. But her call could not have been more gracious.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Well, look, your campaign spent millions of dollars in TV ads spotlighting the profile of former baseball star, Republican Steve Garvey, effectively elevating him over a number of your Democratic challengers. And as a result, Republican turnout really boomed in a number of districts, including a lot of districts that Democrats were trying to hold onto or flip. Are you concerned that your actions may have helped Republicans to hold on to the House in 2024?
REP. ADAM SCHIFF:
No, not at all. And look, we have a jungle primary in California. So, all of us were on the same debate stage – the lone Republican Steve Garvey and three Democrats. And yes, I emphasized my record of getting things done in California, of protecting our democracy and our rights and freedoms, including reproductive freedom. But I also went after Steve Garvey, as did the other Democrats. The challenge I think my Democratic colleagues had was less Garvey consolidating Republicans and more their inability to gain Democratic support. My support among Democrats was more than twice my closest Democratic colleague. But in terms of turnout, this is a presidential cycle. And let's face it. Much as we might think otherwise running for Senate, it is the presidential candidates that drive turnout or fail to drive turnout. And we've got to make sure in November that we turn out all these voters. And I think frankly, not having one Democrat spend millions to bash another Democrat is probably helpful in those down-ballot races because a lot more of those resources will now go to winning over Democratic seats.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, you do take me to my next question which is that your victory speech was interrupted by pro-Palestinian protesters. Are you concerned that President Biden's full-throated support of Israel could overshadow some of these races, could cost seats up and down the ballot?
REP. ADAM SCHIFF:
Look, I think President Biden is doing what he should do. And that is figure out, what's the right answer? What's the right policy? How do we bring this conflict to an end? How do we make sure that a terrorist group like Hamas is no longer controlling Gaza? How do we get to a two-state solution? He's approaching it from, what's the right thing to do? And then figuring out, "Okay, what are the political consequences, and how do I deal with them," instead of the other way around. And frankly, I think that's exactly what he should do. We're going to have to work hard to motivate and turn out young people in particular. I think he's got a phenomenal record to appeal to young people. No one's done more to reduce the burden of student debt than Joe Biden. No one has done more to attack climate change than Joe Biden. No one has done more to attack gun violence than Joe Biden. On a whole host of issues young people deeply care about, he has got an incredible record. But we can't take anything for granted. And I think the highest priority has to be in turning young people out to vote.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Congressman, let me ask you about this development this weekend. U.S. intelligence officials are planning to provide briefings for Donald Trump once he – if he – officially secures the nomination, despite the fact that he's facing 40 felony charges for his handling of classified documents. As the former chair of the House Intelligence Committee, do you think it's appropriate for him to receive intelligence briefings?
REP. ADAM SCHIFF:
Well, that is the practice. But we've never had a situation where one of the candidates for president has been so criminally negligent when it comes to handling – if not worse – when it comes to handling classified information. So I have to hope, and knowing the intelligence community as I do, that they will dumb down the briefing for Donald Trump. That is, they will give him no more information than absolutely necessary, nothing that would reveal resources or methods, because we can't trust that he will do the right thing with that information. He's been so reckless. So yes, it does concern me. It is part of a long tradition. They will be wary of what they share with him. And they should.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Final question here, Congressman. Let's talk about this TikTok debate on Capitol Hill. The House expected to vote next week on a bill that would really crack down on the social media site. Do you support a ban of TikTok? Will you vote for this legislation?
REP. ADAM SCHIFF:
I need to look at the legislation. I have not supported a ban on TikTok. In my view, you know, when it comes to a platform or vehicle for speech, we need to look for the, you know, least restrictive means of meeting our objectives. There are real privacy concerns. There are real security concerns. The question is, is there a way to meet those without banning a whole platform that millions of people like using? This is, I think, a divestiture bill. But I need to study it more before I make a decision.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Well, we'll watch it closely. And let us know once you have made a decision. Congressman Schiff, thank you so much for joining us this morning. We really appreciate it. And when we come back, the response to the president's State of the Union is always a difficult assignment. We look back at a tradition that started in 1966. Our Meet the Press Minute is next. Stay with us.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The State of the Union response, which Alabama Senator Katie Britt delivered this week, is a tradition that dates back to 1966. That year, Senator Everett Dirksen and then-Congressman Gerald Ford, both Republican Party leaders, prepared their own address to challenge President Lyndon Johnson. Gerald Ford joined this broadcast the day before the speech to defend this novel idea.
[START TAPE]
REP. GERALD FORD:
We believe that the public needs and deserves the other side of the coin, that they should get both sides of the appraisal of the State of the Union, both domestic and international. And we will make some specific recommendations, legislatively speaking. Senator Dirksen will make some observations and comments and perhaps recommendations concerning international affairs.
RICHARD HARKNESS:
Would a rude person call this kind of '66 campaign documents, Mr. Ford?
REP. GERALD FORD:
I hope not. We will try to be objective. We will try to give the American people the other side. We believe this will help to strengthen the American political system. And for that reason, we're giving it.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, it's the rematch voters said they didn't want. Now, the Biden/Trump race will play out over the next 240 days. Our panel is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is here. NBC News senior White House correspondent, Kelly O'Donnnell; Eugene Daniels, White House correspondent for Politico, co-author of Politico Playbook; Marc Morial, president of the National Urban League; and Republican strategist Sara Fagen. Thank you all for being here –
MARC MORIAL:
Thank you.
KELLY O'DONNELL:
Good morning.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– on a very busy Sunday. Kelly O, let me start with you. NBC News reporting this morning that the Biden campaign raised $10 million in the 24 hours after the State of the Union address, after delivering this speech that frankly fired up his base. Now, he's barnstorming key states. How are his allies feeling about this reset?
KELLY O'DONNELL:
Well, they feel that that money shows that the attempt to show the vigor really worked. And they want to build on that. They view March as a building and scaling time where they are going to try to make sure they have their volunteers, their organization, their state parties, later for the persuasion. Right now, if there's an infrastructure week in politics, that's what they're talking about. Springing forward into building those key groups that will help support the campaign going forward. So initially, they feel strong about how the president performed. And they know they've got to take that on the road.l
KRISTEN WELKER:
They sure do. And Eugene, yesterday with these dueling events in Georgia, it really underscored how brutal and combative this campaign is going to be. How is Biden approaching that? I mean, does he feel like he's got to match Trump's combativeness? What do you expect we're going to see?
EUGENE DANIELS:
Yeah, I think it's less about matching Trump's combativeness but showing that he has a fight, right? They were very happy on Thursday with him showing that vigor. But they also knew that Democrats wanted to see a fight. I want – they wanted to see someone who would fight for them. And that is something they know they have to continue. We're going to keep seeing, right? President Biden feels in his bones that democracy's on the line. And people want to see him start acting like that, especially Democrats across the country. And I will say, I talked to someone last night and what they told me was basically, he also has to do the other part of it, right? He has to show a future, talk about what the things that he's going to do for America. So there has to be a balance. But that combative nature is going to continue throughout this election.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Sara Fagen, so we'll all buckle up –
EUGENE DANIELS:
Exactly. Exactly.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– as we wait for that combative race to unfold and intensify. Look, Mike Johnson, the Speaker of the House, called President Biden's speech hyper-partisan. And one of the challenges, I think, for President Biden and Trump is in order to win, they've got to reach out to those Nikki Haley voters, those independent, moderate voters. What is your sense about who is doing the better job of reaching out to them right now?
SARA FAGEN:
Well, you know, traditionally a State of the Union would be about crossing the aisle and trying to bring in independents and – and more moderate Republicans to his side. That was not what he did on Thursday. But if you think about where he is politically, profound weakness in the Democratic base. He is underperforming among many of his constituency groups. So that speech was really designed, and it appears to maybe have some evidence that it was helpful and worked, in shoring up support among his base. He did make a strategic error, though, in my view, which was he tied funding for Ukraine to Vladimir Putin's aggression in Europe. And he made it harder for Republicans to vote to support that aid in doing so. And he missed an opportunity to reach out to those Nikki Haley voters who align more with Biden on these foreign policy issues than they do with Trump. And that was a blunder.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, absolutely. Marc, let me turn to you because Sara talks about key constituents. The National Urban League just completed its report on the state of Black America. What did you find, and how does it relate to this race?
MARC MORIAL:
Thank you – thank you for having me. So we looked up three different things. Number one, it's the 60th anniversary since the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. And one question is, has the nation changed? Has it had an impact? Look at this panel. Look at this newsroom. Look at America. Look at the Congress. The change for people of color and women has been absolutely profound. And that has to be underscored. However, we also looked at disparities between Black and white Americans. And those disparities, notwithstanding the change, have not significantly narrowed, particularly in the last 20 years, only a narrowing of maybe a few percentage points. At this rate, we're 180 years away from parity. Number two, we note the attacks on this progress. They come in the form of voter suppression –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
MARC MORIAL:
– voter purges, attacks on democracy, attacks on equal opportunity in DE&I, banning of books, attacks to try to thwart this progress. And thirdly, we did a Biden Black scorecard to look at his promises and his performance. And what it told us is that here was someone who made commitments to Black America, written, specific and numerated, and someone who substantially followed through on many of those commitments with a list of unfinished business: voting rights, living wages, child tax credit, justice and police accountability.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, you know, and that's so notable because, Sara Fagen, look at this. If you look at Black adults who identify as Republican or Republican-leaning, it's grown six points since 2021. Marc lays out what's been accomplished but says there's still work that needs to be done. Why do you think we're seeing that?
SARA FAGEN:
Well, I think it's a couple reasons. I think primarily it's economic. I mean, we're coming out of this very high inflationary period. It's cooled. But still, you know, food costs, housing costs, these are higher percentages of people's take-home budgets. And so, if you're a working-class American of any color, you have really been impacted by that. And so, voters overwhelmingly consider Trump, the Trump economy, to have worked better for them than the Biden economy. And so that's affected Black Americans. But I also think on – on cultural issues as well, there is a percentage of Black Americans that looks at the progressive wing of the Democratic Party and says, “I don't have much in common with voters – with elected officials who believe abortion should be available on demand up – up to the ninth month and on some of these gender issues.” They are more aligned with a conservative viewpoint than they are the progressive wing of the Democratic Party.
KRISTEN WELKER:
There’s no doubt the culture issue –
MARC MORIAL:
But I'll say this. I'll say this, and I think this is important. Let's not obsess over February polls.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
MARC MORIAL:
If we had followed February polls, there'd be no President Reagan, no President Clinton, no President Obama.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
MARC MORIAL:
These polls don't mean anything because the campaign is beginning, and engagement –
KRISTEN WELKER:
We've got a –
MARC MORIAL:
– with voters is now starting.
KRISTEN WELKER:
We've got a long way to go. Kelly, how does the campaign deal with this? And obviously, we've been talking about debates a lot. I mean, this is a chance for them to reach out to all voters.
KELLY O'DONNELL:
Well from the Trump side, talking to people there, they're saying, "anywhere, anytime, any moderator." And it is their intention to make it very difficult for Joe Biden's team to say no to debating. The Biden campaign says, "This is about distraction. This is about the Trump taunt of 2024 about debating." There'll be a time and a place for that. One of the things that I think the Biden team is doing right now which is addressing what we're talking about –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
KELLY O'DONNELL:
– in this conversation is what I call micro-events where they go into a family's home. They shoot a video there. They talk to a small business owner. And you think, why would the president give an hour to a couple of ordinary citizens? Well, they want to have them see him as he is warm and engaging in their view, that they can assess his age. And then they are able to communicate in their communities to be advocates down the line.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Eugene, final point. You've got the last 30 seconds.
EUGENE DANIELS:
Yeah. All of that is exactly right. They want this president to be seen as someone who's helping the everyday Americans. And when you have those Black voters, and I've talked to the folks that he's talked to, they feel differently about them. And now, you have the president explaining the kinds of things that he has done for them. And that's something that this administration has kind of failed to do. We have a lot of time to go before that ends, but they are going to keep doing that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Great conversation. That is all for today. Thank you for watching. We'll be back next week because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.