KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: fiscal fears. Concerns are rising about the US economy and a possible recession amid new tariff threats.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
We've been ripped off for years and we’re not going to be ripped off anymore.
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
It is a shake up. And he said there’s going to be a shake up right now.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:
Donald Trump has single handedly poured a bucket of ice water on the economy.
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN:
Billionaires win, families lose.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I’ll talk exclusively to the Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent and Steve Kornacki will reveal the results of our latest NBC News poll. Plus: divided. Senate Democrats advance a Republican spending bill to avoid a government shutdown, but spark an intra party battle in the process.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:
I will vote to keep the government open and not shut it down.
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO CORTEZ:
I think there is a deep sense of outrage and betrayal.
REPORTER:
Is it time for new leadership in the Senate?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
Next question.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I'll talk to Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut. And: at risk? The White House insists cuts to entitlement programs are off the table but Elon Musk is fueling fears that benefits could get cut.
ELON MUSK:
Most of the federal spending is entitlements. So that’s – that’s like the big one to eliminate.
REP. JOHN LARSON:
Why isn’t he here explaining it? You know why. ‘Cause he’s out to privatize social security.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Joining me for insight and analysis are: MSNBC Senior Washington Correspondent Eugene Daniels; Anna Palmer, co-founder of Punchbowl News; Democratic Pollster Cornell Belcher; and Republican strategist Sara Fagen. Welcome to Sunday. It's Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. We begin with our brand new NBC News poll. The biggest takeaway? President Trump is more popular than in his first term but voters have soured on his handling of the economy - one of his signature issues. 54 percent of voters disapprove of the president's handling of the economy, the first time Mr. Trump has ever had majority disapproval on the issue in NBC News polling. Just 18 percent of voters rate the economy as excellent or good — the lowest mark in our polling in more than a decade. The poll reflects an America that remains deeply divided. The president's approval rating, 47%, is as high as it’s ever been but a majority 51% disapprove of his performance. On Wednesday the president argued his on-again, off-again tariff policy is not rattling financial markets.
[BEGIN TAPE]
REPORTER:
There’s been a lot of on and off - some inconsistency -
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
There’s no inconsistency. It’s called flexibility. It’s not called inconsistency. It’s called flexibility.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Meanwhile, feelings toward the Democratic Party are at an historic low. 55% view the party negatively. And there's a divide among Democrats. On Friday, nine Democrats led by Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, and Independent Angus King who caucuses with them, voted with Republicans to advance a short-term spending bill to keep the government open.
[BEGIN TAPE]
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:
As bad as the CR is, I believe allowing Donald Trump to take even much more power via a government shutdown is a far worse option. A shutdown would allow DOGE to shift into overdrive.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Now, before the vote, Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi released a statement defying Schumer, writing, quote, "Democrats must not buy into this false choice." The party divisions were on display.
[BEGIN TAPE]
SEN. ADAM SCHIFF:
Today was a bad day for the country, and I won’t sugarcoat it, today was also a bad day for the Democratic Party.
SEN. PATTY MURRAY:
In this case, CR stands for complete resignation.
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ:
I think there is a deep sense of outrage and betrayal.
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
An unacceptable, unconscionable, and un-American spending bill.
REPORTER:
Is it time for new leadership in the Senate?
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
Next question.
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:
What leverage do we have? Democrats keep showing up at every knife fight with a casserole.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Joining me now to take us through our new poll numbers is NBC News National Correspondent Steve Kornacki. Steve, a lot of headlines in this poll.
STEVE KORNACKI:
Yeah, Kristen. And you get to it, let's just start with Trump himself, that 47% job - job approval rating. Two ways of looking at this. First of all, if you compare Trump to every recent president this point after coming into office, Trump's number here is the lowest. Significantly the lowest of any of his modern predecessors except Donald Trump in his first term. He was at 40% at this point in 2017. So this for Trump is actually better at 47% than he's done. And what that reflects is it's not that he's built a lot of new popularity since the election, but that coalition that elected him, you're not seeing that disappear from him at least yet. And there are some things driving that. First of all, the mood of the country. This really jumped out. We asked folks, "Is it on the right direction or the wrong direction?" That 44% who say right direction, that's up since November. And if that doesn't seem like a lot, the last time it cracked 40%, you've got to go back to 2012. The last time it actually hit 44 or higher, January of 2004. So a lot of this is Republicans, but Independents, that number is also up since the election on the direction of the country. Also just Trump and his base, we monitor this. Among Republicans, look at this. Basically three out of four Republicans say it's a very positive view they have of Trump, not just positive. Again, at this point in his first term, it was only 50. It's just the strengthening of that base, the tightness they feel in terms of their connection with him. And then there's the Trump agenda. There are some popular elements of it here. Handling of border security in the immigration issue: 55% approval. That goes beyond his base you see right there. You hear about DOGE there in - in the setup. And broadly speaking, people - people do think this is a popular idea here. A good idea, 46%, bad idea, 40%. Look at this way. When you ask folks, "What should DOGE be doing going forward?" A third say, "Much more." 28 say, "DOGE just needs to slow the pace down." But that's 61% total who seem to say that DOGE is basically a good thing, a necessary thing right now. Where it gets complicated for Trump, the man who's leading DOGE, negative. 51%.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Wow.
STEVE KORNACKI:
A majority negative rating for Elon Musk right here. Also, federal workers. We just asked folks, "Do you have a positive, negative view?" Much more positive than negative in terms of federal workers. And then for Trump, there is, we say, not slippage since the election, but the warning signs. And it's on broader areas of his leadership. Look at this. In all of these areas you see right here, Kristen: foreign policy, the Russia-Ukraine war, majority disapproval at this point for Trump.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And the economy is a red flag because that's the lowest number we have seen on the economy in the history of our poll for President Trump.
STEVE KORNACKI:
That's right. In his first term, this was the exception. He had low numbers --
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
STEVE KORNACKI:
-- overall his first term, but not on the economy.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
STEVE KORNACKI:
But the economy and inflation this time, look at those numbers, and you look at the mood on the economy. Only 18% of voters say it's excellent or good right now. Our pollsters looked at this right before the election. That number was 26%, excellent, good before the election. So it has come down. And then you ask folks a little differently here, "What is Trump doing on inflation? His agenda, his approach. Are you satisfied with what he's trying to do?" 43% say they're satisfied. Majority not satisfied. And this is the real warning sign for the administration right now: Independents.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Wow.
STEVE KORNACKI:
Basically three out of four not satisfied with the effort that's being put into the question of inflation right now. You look at things like this and you say if it's politically bad news for Trump, it's probably good news for the Democrats. They do lead our generic congressional ballot by a point, but they're also facing a very unique challenge in our poll right here. The view voters have of each party, neither is good, but look at the --
KRISTEN WELKER:
Wow.
STEVE KORNACKI:
-- numbers here for Democrats. 27% positive. More than double, 55% negative. And we'll just put this on a graph for you in our poll here. This goes back a long way and you can see the trend line for both parties. This is what's happened to the Democrats since the election.
KRISTEN WELKER:
That is astonishing, Steve. That's an historic low, right?
STEVE KORNACKI:
That is. In more than 30 years of this poll, we've never seen either party hit a number this low in terms of negatives here. One thing to note on this for the Democrats, too, a lot of that negative rating, it's coming from Democrats, themselves. And a lot of that is coming from Democrats who say the party is being too cooperative in their view with Donald Trump.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Interesting. A lot for both parties to chew on. Steve Kornacki, great to see you. Thanks so much.
STEVE KORNACKI:
Thanks, Kristen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Really appreciate it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And joining me now is Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent. Secretary Bessent, welcome to Meet The Press.
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:Kristen, good to see you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It's wonderful to have you here. Thank you for being here in person. Let's start off by talking about the big picture on the economy. A majority of Americans say they disapprove of President Trump's handling of the economy. Consumer sentiment plunged this week to a 29-month low. JPMorgan, Goldman Sachs slashed growth expectations. Why are all of those folks wrong and President Trump is right about his tariff policy?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Well, Kristen, and thanks for having me here. And look, what I am not going to say that went on for a long time under the Biden administration and for a lot of the media, and I'm not going to point fingers. But they used to say it was a "vibecession," and the American people don't know what they talk about. And Donald Trump, his administration, myself all believe that the American people know what they're feeling. And that we believe that our policies will change that. Clearly, they are traumatized from what's happened with this affordability crisis that was brought on by the previous administration. They want relief. We've been in for eight weeks. We are putting the policies in place that will make the affordability crisis go down, inflation moderate. And that as we set the sails, I am confident that the American people will come our way, even if some of the media narrative doesn't.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, and just to be clear, I mean, these are polls that are taken two months into President Trump's presidency. But let's talk about what happened in the stock market this week. Worst week for the market in two years. Does that worry you, Mr. Secretary?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Not at all. I've been in the investment business for 35 years. And I can tell you that corrections are healthy. They're normal. What's not healthy is straight-up, that is euphoric markets. That's how you get a financial crisis. It would have been healthier if someone had put the brakes on in '06-'07. We wouldn't have had the problems in '08. So I'm not worried about the markets. Over the long term, if we put good tax policy in place, deregulation, and energy security, the markets will do great.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I hear you say you're not worried about the markets. But nearly 60% of Americans are invested in the markets. That's their retirement savings. What do you say to Americans who have real concerns that their retirement savings may be in jeopardy?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
I say that one week does not the market make. As Warren Buffett says, over the short-term the market is a voting machine, over the long term, it's a weighing machine. And again, Kristen, it would have been very easy for us to come in, run these reckless policies that have been happening before. We've got these large government deficits, 6.7% of GDP. We've never seen this when we're not in war time, not in recession. We are bringing those down in a responsible way. We are going to have a transition. And we are not going to have a crisis.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me play you what some business leaders all around the country have had to say in response to President Trump's tariffs. Take a look.
[BEGIN TAPE]
JOSH GACKLE:
It would be difficult for U.S. farmers to try and get through some type of long-term trade war that affects our bottom line.
ETHAN MCGARY:
Building the average house is going to cost more.
RUSS KLISCH:
I don't really understand the goal or the end play here on what's all trying to occur.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Mr. Secretary, you heard that business owner say he doesn't understand the end goal of these tariffs. So help bring some clarity if you can. Are these tariffs a temporary negotiating tactic or are they a permanent policy here to stay?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
So Kristen, thanks for the question. And I can tell you. So April 2nd is going to be a big day. We're going to roll out reciprocal tariffs. But what I can tell you, and I would encourage your viewers and the public and the media to follow, going into April 2nd and already now, we've seen some of our most imbalanced trading partners come forward and want to drop their tariffs. So, by President Trump pushing forward with a tariff plan, reciprocal tariffs, "If you drop yours, we'll drop ours," we are already seeing some of the worst offenders come down. April 2nd is an important day. But I would also tell everyone to look what happens from April 2nd to, say, June 30th as the other countries come down too. And President Trump's created a win-win situation here. Either the tariff barriers come down. The U.S. can export more. Trade is fairer. It's always been free, but not fair. And then we, or, if they don't do it, we'll take in substantial revenues.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I want to ask you about something that you actually said last week. And we'll discuss it on the other side. Take a look.
[BEGIN TAPE]
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Access to cheap goods is not the essence of the American dream. The American dream is rooted in the concept that any citizen can achieve prosperity, upward mobility, and economic security.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Mr. Secretary, are you there essentially saying that the Trump administration is comfortable to have consumers pay more for goods in America?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Not at all, Kristen. What I'm saying is the American dream is not, "Let them eat flat screens." That if Americans, American families aren't able to afford a home, don't believe that their children will do better than they are. The American dream is not contingent on cheap bobbles they get from China. That it is more than that. And we are focused on affordability. But it's mortgages, it's cars, it's real wage gains.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you acknowledge though that tariffs will ultimately drive up prices, at least in the short-term? That's what economists, that's what business leaders, that's what CEOs say.
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Well, look, they don't have to because I believe especially with the China tariffs that China's manufacturers, they will eat the VAT, will eat the price or eat the tariffs. I believe that the currency adjusts. And I believe if we look during President Trump's first term, that the all the other things we do, if we're deregulating, if we're energy prices down, then, if we look across the spectrum, Americans will realize lower prices and better affordability.
KRISTEN WELKER:
As you know, the administration has been pressed repeatedly on the prospects of a recession. The messaging has been a little mixed. Let's look at some of what we've heard.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
I hate to predict things like that. There is a period of transition.
SEC. HOWARD LUTNICK
There's going to be no recession in America.
VICE PRES. JD VANCE
Well, look, you never can predict the future.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Mr. Secretary, can you guarantee the American people here and now that there will be no recession on President Trump's watch?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Well, Kristen, you know that there are no guarantees. Like, who would have predicted COVID, right? So I can predict that we are putting in robust policies that will be durable. And could there be an adjustment? Because I tell you, this massive government spending that we'd had, that if that had kept going, we have to wean our country off of that. And on the other side, we are going to invigorate the private sector. I had a meeting with small bankers last week. And they are ready to start lending. And I can tell you that Main Street is going to do well.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So, what exactly do you mean when you say adjustment? Could that potentially lead to a recession?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
There's no reason that it has to. But I can tell you that if we’d kept on this track, what I could guarantee is we would have had a financial crisis. I've studied it. I've taught it. And if we had kept up at these spending levels, that everything was unsustainable. So we are putting the – we are resetting and we are putting things on a sustainable path.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well let me ask you about some of these cuts to the federal government. Obviously President Trump's been very clear. He thinks that no agency should be spared, a lot of focus on the IRS. How much of the workforce do you think will be cut from the IRS?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Well, again, and Kristen, I used to – when I was on the other side of the wall, I didn't like the term "fake news." Now that I'm on the inside, I got to say it might not be strong enough. Because some of the numbers that I've seen thrown out--
KRISTEN WELKER:
I didn't give you a number. I'm letting you tell me.
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
No, no, no. But but --
KRISTEN WELKER:
You tell me.
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Some very large print media is throwing out big numbers. That just doesn't exist. So --
KRISTEN WELKER:
What is the number? That's what I want to ask you.
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Well, I will tell you that there were 15 – about 15,000 probationary employees that we could have let go. We kept about 7,500, 8,500 because we viewed them as essential to the mission. And, you know, we will know once we get inside. But what I can tell you, is that we are doing a big review. We're not doing anything – we’re not doing anything. Right now is playoff season for us. April 15th is game day. And even employees who could take voluntary retirement, the rest of the federal workforce, their date was in February. Our date for them is in May. So I have three priorities for the IRS: collections, privacy, and customer service. And we'll see what level is needed to prioritize all those.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay, well, we'll stay on top of that review for sure. I do want to ask you about the breaking news overnight. The Trump administration launching large-scale military strikes against Yemen's Iranian-backed Houthis. What exactly is the message that President Trump is trying to send to Iran?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
So it's a very strong message and very different than the previous administration. So the Houthis – the Iranians, should expect that this is the beginning. This is not a one-off. And we are doing this because they are blocking freedom of passage for global shipping. And Kristen, back to the economy, back to inflation, that closing the Suez Canal slows global commerce and increases inflationary pressure for both us and our allies. So we are sending a message. This is unacceptable. Two weeks ago, the president announced a maximum pressure strategy on Iran. Their economy is in disarray. The previous administration let their oil exports go up to about 1.5 million a day. And our target is to get it to zero.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. Secretary Bessent, thank you so much for being here. Covered a lot of ground this morning. Really appreciate it.
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Good. Thanks, Kristen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good to see you. And when we come back, Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back and joining me now is Democratic Senator, Chris Murphy of Connecticut. Senator Murphy, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY:
Yeah, thanks for having me.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it.
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY:
Of course.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let's talk about this extraordinary week on Capitol Hill. You voted no on the government funding bill that could have led to a shutdown. Ten Democrats, led by Leader Chuck Schumer, voted to advance the spending package to keep the government open. Leader Schumer took to the floor to defend his decision. I want to play a little bit, get your reaction on the other side.
[BEGIN TAPE]
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:
As bad as the CR is, I believe allowing Donald Trump to take even much more power via a government shutdown is a far worse option. A shutdown would allow DOGE to shift into overdrive.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, is Leader Schumer wrong?
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY:
So let's pull back for a second. This is not a normal political moment. This is not a normal political fight. What Donald Trump is doing right now is absolutely insidious. He is, every single day, acting unconstitutionally. He is trying to destroy the rule of law, and for what? To essentially hand our government over to the billionaire class so that they can steal from us. There is a level of corruption happening in this White House that is absolutely unprecedented. And so this, to me, is a moment where we need to be restraining the president's power, not giving him new authorities. And for those of us that voted against this budget bill, part of our worry is that it does give the president new authority to move money around, new authority to begin new programming, cut some essential services for the poor and the middle class. And while I totally understand my colleagues who didn't want to catapult us into a shutdown, I actually think that the American people would've understood that Republicans have an obligation to negotiate with Democrats. This is the first full-year spending bill since I've been in Congress that was written only by the Republican Party. So yes, it would have been a risk. I understand the decision that many of my Democratic colleagues made. But I think the American people want us to take risks right now in order to save our democracy.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, based on my conversations with some of your colleagues who voted to keep the government open, they say you just didn't have any leverage. What leverage did Democrats have to extract concessions from Republicans in this moment?
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY:
Well, again, this is the first time that a full-year spending bill has passed without it being agreed upon by both parties. So certainly, in the past, the minority party has used its leverage in the Senate in order to get a seat at the table. Again, I understand the danger of a shutdown right now. But as we saw just hours after that bill passed the Senate, the president is continuing to act unconstitutionally. He shut down some of our most important programs that protect us abroad, like Radio Free Asia and Radio Free Europe that were funded and authorized in that spending bill. So by passing the spending bill, it doesn't seem that we have restrained any of the president's lawlessness.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You have spoken forcefully in the past actually against shutting down the government. I want to play a little bit of that sound for you. Take a look.
[BEGIN TAPE]
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY:
This is just no time to be playing around with people's lives.
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY:
We need to start acting like adults. We need to start doing the job that we were sent here to do because our nation's security is at stake.
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY:
It's hard to explain the ramifications of a shutdown, but they're enormous. Head Start programs won't open. Soldiers won't get paid for defending this country. The consequences are absolutely devastating.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And yet you say Americans would have understood this time. What changed, senator?
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY:
Listen, I don't think Americans would have understood, but they would have understood why we got there. If you are the majority party, you have an obligation to negotiate with the minority. Republicans refuse to do that. Again, never before has a spending bill been written by only one party. And at this moment, when the president is acting so unconstitutionally, it just seems like the absolute wrong time to give him these new powers. Listen, I understand that a no vote was a risk, right? But I think the American public right now want us to stand up, Democrats, to stand up and take some risks. Every single day, the president is engaging in exceptional tactics, in risk tolerant behavior. And I don't think you save the republic and save our democracy by playing it straight and maintaining norms when the president is shattering them every single day.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You know, Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi broke with Leader Schumer's strategy in an extraordinary moment. House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries was asked if he has confidence in Leader Schumer, and he said, "Next question." He effectively dodged the question multiple times. So let me put this question to you. Do you have confidence in Leader Schumer's leadership?
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY:
So, Leader Schumer has a very difficult job. I don't envy the job that he has. And the question is really for the members of his Democratic caucus. Are we willing to fight, right? I admit that it would take some risk-tolerant behavior in order to effectively stand up to this president. And so the question really is for my party writ large, are we willing to do the very difficult things necessary to meet this moment?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you think that Leader Schumer is the best person to lead your caucus in this moment?
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY:
Senator Schumer certainly can lead this caucus.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Is he the best person?
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY:
He can lead this caucus. But, we need to have a conversation inside the caucus about whether we are willing to stand up to Republicans. Listen, we have options. We could decide to not proceed to legislation as an ordinary course of business. There are big fights ahead of us like the debt ceiling, like another potential government shutdown in six months. So, we have opportunities as a caucus to stand up and meet this moment. And I think the American people are demanding that we do that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Just yes or no, before we move on, do you have confidence in Leader Schumer?
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY:
I still support Senator Schumer as leader. But, I think the only way that we are going to be effective as a caucus is if we change our tactics. And we have to have a conversation inside our caucus to make sure that we are going to do that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So, let's talk about that. You posted a video explaining your vote, what you called a "very difficult moment." Many of your supporters responded online, saying you should replace Leader Schumer. Is that something that you would consider? Would you consider that role?
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY:
I mean, I don't think anybody's having that conversation right now. What's important is that we meet this moment. And what I'm telling you is that if we continue to observe norms, if we continue to engage in business as usual, this democracy could be gone. I don't think we have a year to save American democracy. I think the way the president is acting, using law enforcement to target dissidents, harassing TV stations and radio stations that criticize him, endorsing political violence, puts our democracy at immediate risk. So, if you are a Democrat in the Senate or in the House, you have to start acting with urgency. And that is the conversation that we have to start having inside our caucus.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Our new NBC News poll, as you just saw, shows the Democratic Party at an all-time low approval rating. Why do you think Democrats are failing to connect with Americans at this critical moment of urgency, which you describe?
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY:
Well, it's what I just talked about. I mean, I think Americans want the Democratic Party to stand up and fight and to take risks. Listen, I understand that had we gone into a shutdown, even for a handful of days, it would have been difficult. But it would have sent a message that the Democratic Party is not going to be bullied by Donald Trump. We are not going to let them write spending bills unilaterally that cut programs for people we care about, that give the president new and extraordinary power. I think Democrats in this country, but I think the broad middle of the public as well, want to see our party fighting in exceptional ways. That is the conversation that has to happen inside of the Democratic Party, inside our caucus. And if we don't get that right, if we continue to work with Republicans, if we continue to hand Donald Trump more power, we are going to lose our democracy.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Well, Senator Murphy, thank you so much. Please keep us posted on those conversations, come back soon to update us. Thank you very much for being here.
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
We really appreciate it. And when we come back, how will President Trump respond to growing warning signs on the economy? The panel's next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is here: Eugene Daniels, MSNBC Senior Washington correspondent and incoming cohost of The Weekend; Anna Palmer, CEO and founder of Punchbowl News; Democratic pollster Cornell Belcher; and Republican strategist Sara Fagen. Thanks to all of you for being here after a very busy week. My goodness. Eugene, a lot to get to. Let me have you kick it off here. 54% of voters saying they disapprove of President Trump's handling of the economy. What were some of your key takeaways from this poll as it relates to the president and his first two months in office?
EUGENE DANIELS:
Yeah, I think warning signs, right? I think for Donald Trump, he can look at what Joe Biden went through and learn a lot of lessons. We were in briefing rooms together when you were covering the White House and we heard over and over, aides to President Biden, saying, laughing at us, when we asked about inflation, whether that was going to be an issue for Joe Biden. This feels like that moment. The difference is that Donald Trump understands people's feelings are sometimes more important than anything when they're voters. And so the key is one, the policy has to move and make things better. But they also have to explain to people, showing their work, what they're doing. And I think that's the thing that they have to focus on moving forward.
KRISTEN WELKER:
That's a really important point, explaining is so important to the American people. Sara, let's talk about some of the other numbers. 71% of Republicans say they identify with the MAGA brand, but only 28% of Independents feel positively toward President Trump. We are really seeing what we've been reporting on for months, which is this coalescing when it comes to Republicans around President Trump. But when it comes to Independents, he does have a challenge.
SARA FAGEN:
Yeah, I think he does. I think in part because they were rented voters, right? You know, many of the Independents voted for Donald Trump because they didn't like the Democrats. They didn't support Joe Biden. So it's not surprising that when you have a few weeks of economic turmoil in the news, that they're going to go back to a position of disfavor, so to speak. I don't think the White House is looking at poll numbers right now. I believe that when you talk to people there, they have a once-in-a-generation opportunity to reform government, to rethink the way the government takes in revenues and supports the programs that people need, and that's what they're focused on. The question is, how much runway do they have?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, Cornell, pick up there and let's talk about what we're seeing for the Democrats. Historic low numbers, and it comes against the backdrop of this extraordinary fight that we saw play out. You saw Senator Murphy saying, "We've got to move in a different direction and our democracy depends on it." He said in a year, the democracy could be gone.
CORNELL BELCHER:
Yeah, no, actually this is a really important conversation that I wish we had more time for. One thing, I think Republicans, the White House might not be looking at it, but if you're a House Republican in a tough swing state, you've got to be looking at it, right? He's gone from, in NBC's polling, from a majority approving of his handling the economy, to now underwater approving of the economy. And that number on inflation is -13 overall, it's -36 among – or -32 among Independent voters. So that middle-of-the-road voter that House Republicans are absolutely going to need, they are watching what we are doing on inflation. And you also see in NBC polling how the majority don't think they're focused at all enough on actually fighting inflation. So it may not be a problem for the White House. If I'm running for a seat as a Republican in this coming midterm, I would be very concerned about it. On the Democratic side, I think we're at a really important inflection point for Democrats, right? And I know we will get into that conversation with the senator here in a moment. But when you look at the collapse of that Democratic positive, right, if you look at Independent voters, right, Independent voters, underwater, 32, 36 points, for Democrats, where Republicans for Independent voters, underwater around roughly the same mark. This problem isn't with the base and the core of the Democratic Party. They are as far under water with young voters as I've seen, and I worked for Obama. I've not seen Democrats this far under water. Heck, only 49% of African Americans have a positive view of it. So a lot of this is really around the core and these young voters and that fight that you see happening right now is really sort of encapsulating the problem for Democrats.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, and at the root of the problem for both parties, Anna is the economy. The frustration that people feel that they haven't started to see prices come down under President Trump, the frustration that they feel about the disunity in the Democratic Party. And you heard Senator Murphy say he thinks that they should have taken the risk and move forward with shutting down the government. And I thought his comments around Leader Schumer were pretty fascinating as well.
ANNA PALMER:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think you are seeing such frustration with Chuck Schumer and really all the Democrats kind of channeling their frustration with the fact that they don't have a unified message, or they haven't found a way to go up against this president in an effective way and to bring along kind of the base of their party, you know, whether it was, you know, the senator today, or if you look at what house minority leader, and you played the sound of that, "Next question." That is stunning. In 20 years of reporting on Capitol Hill, you have never seen the kind of intra-party fight get on display in that dramatic a fashion.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Eugene, talk about that extraordinary moment. I asked Senator Murphy a couple different times if he had confidence in Schumer. Eventually he got there and said, "Yes," but it took a couple of tries. But with Hakeem Jeffries, boy, that was stunning, when he wouldn't just say, "Yes, I have confidence in my colleague."
EUGENE DANIELS:
Or he could have said, "Ridiculous question," instead of, "Next question," right? There are so many ways to get out of that that all of these politicians understand and have been doing it for a long time, as we all know. And so the fact that he didn't makes very clear a couple things. The frictions that have been playing out behind the scenes between Schumer and Jeffries, the kind of different leaders they are. Schumer kind of sees Jeffries as, like, this new guy who has a lot to learn in leadership. And Jeffries sees him as, like, an old guy who maybe learned too much and needs to listen to the party a little bit more. And so that playing out is exactly why when I talk to Democrats, they say that this is going to get worse before it gets better for them.
SARA FAGEN:
It's going to get way worse. I mean, look, the Democratic Party is maybe ten, 15 years behind where the Republicans were. If you go back to --
KRISTEN WELKER:
In what sense?
SARA FAGEN:
Well, you go back to 2010, and '11 and '12 when we had put forward all these candidates in primaries where a electable Republican lost, Republicans, it took much longer to take back the Senate. And you can look at that parallel here, where the left flank is upset, there are threatening primaries. If that happens, it'll be a long time before Democrats take control of the U.S. Senate irrespective of what happens in this economy.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Cornell?
CORNELL BELCHER:
Look, I think I'm shocked at the bubbling up outrage that you see in the grassroots. I really am. This is a watershed moment. And I feel this way, this is a watershed moment not for now but also I think 2028, right? I think I have not seen this sort of divide since the vote on the Iraq War, right? And it was the old-school establishment versus the young and up-comers who said that was the wrong vote. I think when you look forward, this is going to be a moment where the younger sort of grassroots and sort of energized core of the base of the party goes, "That is defining moment. And if you're on the wrong side of fighting and taking on Trump there, it's a problem just like being on the wrong side of the Iraq War."
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, I think you encapsulate it by saying it is watershed moment. So much more to discuss. Please stick around guys, when we come back, the battles over a government shutdown and the lessons learned. Our Meet the Press minute is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. While Congress avoided a government shutdown this week, it's a reminder of how a single procedural vote on federal spending can bring Washington to a standstill. In 1995, President Bill Clinton and Republicans, led by Speaker Newt Gingrich, were deadlocked in a budget showdown, triggering what was then the longest government shutdown in U.S. history. Days before the first of two shutdowns over the 1996 federal budget, Speaker Gingrich joined Meet the Press.
[BEGIN TAPE]
LISA MYERS:
How long are you prepared to leave the government shut down? Weeks if necessary?
SPEAKER NEWT GINGRICH:
I would like to have the president sign a bill tomorrow and the government won't shut down at all. So I'm not prepared to shut it down at all. We are doing our job. We're sending a continuing resolution. All he's got to do is sign it and the government stays open. So we don't want it to shut down at all.
TIM RUSSERT:
Last Sunday, I asked Senator Dole if the government shut down who'd get blamed, and he said, "All of us, Gingrich, Dole, and Clinton."
SPEAKER NEWT GINGRICH:
I agree with that. And I think it is a tragedy that we're in a situation where we can't find a way to talk this through. And I think Senator Dole and I have spent the whole week doing what he suggested. And that is reaching out, offering to meet, offering to talk, offering to negotiate, and on every turn, we've been turned down by the White House. I mean, it's truly compared to normal patterns in Washington, it is sort of extraordinary I think.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, what Americans' negative views of Elon Musk mean for President Trump. More with the panel next.
[BEGIN TAPE]
ELON MUSK:
I mean, the waste report in entitlement spending, you know, which most of the federal spending is entitlements. So that's, like, the big one to eliminate.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is still here. Anna Palmer, President Trump has said entitlements will not be touched, and there you heard Elon Musk saying, "It's the big one." It's what's fueling most of government spending. So what are your sources telling you about how this is going to play out?
ANNA PALMER:
I mean, it is the big one, but it's also why you saw the Trump administration pull back from anything in Medicare or Medicaid, because those are kind of the third rail. Republicans don't want to be talking about that. But we were speaking to Republican senators, and I think two things really stood out to me this week. One, they are still on board with what this administration is doing. They go back home. Cutting, you know, wasteful, fraudulent spending plays really well. And I think the second thing has been really interesting. As these cabinet secretaries have come on board, the wings of Elon Musk are being clipped. And Elon Musk is also coming to the hill. He came and talked to Senate Republicans, gave them his cell phone number, and said, "If you have a problem with something that's been cut in your state, in your district, get in touch." That is some hand-to-hand combat that you don't typically see from an administration.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Eugene, we felt exactly what Anna's saying, that Elon Musk's wings have been clipped in a response to Secretary Bessent had when I asked him, "How big are the cuts going to be to the IRS?" And he said, "We're going to launch a review." Elon Musk was not launching reviews.
EUGENE DANIELS:
No.
KRISTEN WELKER:
He's just slashing things.
EUGENE DANIELS:
Not at all. Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I mean, it's a very different approach that he revealed.
EUGENE DANIELS:
It is, because it shows that the blowback that came from the speed at which Elon Musk and DOGE were operating and kind of the chaos that was created is something the administration did not like. It's something Donald Trump did not like. Right? It's why they had that blow-up at that cabinet meeting where Donald Trump told the cabinet secretaries, "Well, you're in charge. Elon's like a helper." Right? And Elon doesn't know that, but – you know Elon’s helping. And Bessent actually kind of had to tussle publicly with Elon before, right? He in February had to say, "No, he's not in our systems in the way that he and the DOGE kids are kind of saying it." And so that shows the frustrations that have been building in the secretaries who want to run their own departments is coming out and now Donald Trump is changing things because of it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Sara.
SARA FAGEN:
Yeah. I mean, I think, look, if you look in a poll, nearly two thirds of people support the tenets of DOGE. And some will argue, "Go faster." Some will argue, "Go slower." I think the most important thing the White House and Elon Musk need to do is come up with a more consistent narrative about the arc of why this needs to happen and a process. And I think that, you know, also in that poll, I was struck by the number of people who claim to know somebody who's been impacted by a government reduction cut or something. It's, you know, pushing 30%. That includes a lot of people, including probably farmers who are worried about tariffs. But nonetheless, like, this is out in the mainstream and people are worried about it. They support it. They understand it. But they need to hear a consistent, clear message from the government.
KRISTEN WELKER:
That disconnect where the administration is not doing enough to explain exactly what they're doing, Cornell.
CORNELL BELCHER:
I think you take an eye off the prize. Right? Sure. Generically, everyone's for, you know, getting waste out of government. Right? Who's not for getting waste out of government? For months going up until the election, we sat around this table and talked about inflation, the price of eggs, inflation, the price of eggs. And 55% of Americans in our NBC polling says that they've not done enough to focus on bringing down costs.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It's an opening for Democrats.
CORNELL BELCHER:
It is absolutely an opening, quite frankly, for Democrats. And look. And, you know, secretaries sit around at a table and talk about sort of how there's been focus on the economy and bringing down costs. And what have they been doing to do it? If I look at what they've been most focused on from day one, quite frankly, is diversity. Right? It's, quite frankly, going after diversity and going after equity, a lot more than they've gone after cutting the price of eggs. If they would spend as much time on the price of eggs as going after diversity, eggs might be free at this point.
KRISTEN WELKER:
One of the striking moments of this week was the moment where President Trump basically had a car show at the White House. Teslas on display with Elon Musk. It comes as, of course, Tesla's sales have been dropping. Elon Musk's approval ratings, much lower than President Trump's, by the way. The optics of this, Anna, is it complicated for the White House?
ANNA PALMER:
Well, it's amazing that they're doubling down on Elon Musk, because, to Cornell's point, this is the opening for Democrats. They're already starting to run ads featuring Elon Musk as the boogeyman. This gives them the b-roll and the visuals that you need to say that the White House is, you know, kind of mixing business with the work of the government.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. Eugene, we should note President Biden did actually have electric cars at the White House as well. So we've seen this type of display --
SARA FAGEN:
And exclude Tesla.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. Well, yeah. And that's what makes it so complicated. Because in this case, you have Elon Musk, who works at the White House with President Trump.
SARA FAGEN:
Well, I looked at that and I thought, "There's so many parallels between how Donald Trump sees himself and I think how he sees Elon Musk." Here's a person who's wealthy, who's wildly successful, has great property—at least Donald Trump has great property — doesn't need to do this, is doing this because they believe the country's headed in the wrong direction and they have a unique ability to come impact and improve it. And then they had been vilified. Donald Trump was vilified for what he tried to do, and he sees Elon Musk being vilified. And that parallel. And Tesla stock has dropped nearly 50% since Christmas. He's paying a price for his involvement, and he doesn't need to do it.
CORNELL BELCHER:
Poor Elon.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I see you wanting to get in --
CORNELL BELCHER:
Poor Elon.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I see you wanting to get in.
CORNELL BELCHER:
Richest man in the world, Elon.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Cornell.
CORNELL BELCHER:
So I hear you on that. But --
SARA FAGEN:
But he doesn't need to do it.
CORNELL BELCHER:
Well, then don't do it. Because frankly if you look at his numbers, I think most Americans would argue, "We don't want you to do it."
SARA FAGEN:
Now, I'm not sure that's true. You look at two thirds of the country believe the government needs to be reformed. And so at great personal risk for his businesses, he's doing this.
KRISTEN WELKER:
He's also acknowledged there have been mistakes. Is it the way he's doing it?
CORNELL BELCHER:
Well, he's ham fisted. And, by the way, a billionaire is not someone that most Americans are going to think understands their way of life and understands the programs and things in the government that actually help them. And you know what he's showing? He's showing that he does not in fact understand sort of what mainstream America is focused on, right? And the ideal that what Biden at the White House is similar to the Trump basically being a salesman and hawking Teslas on the front lawn of the White House is completely different. The ad writes itself.
EUGENE DANIELS:
But why the Democrats aren't doing it? Immediately the next day, there should have been just that ad. Just show that over and over and over again --
KRISTEN WELKER:
You're saying another missed opportunity --
EUGENE DANIELS:
Another missed opportunity --
KRISTEN WELKER:
– for Democrats.
EUGENE DANIELS:
Democrats are bad on messaging. But when you talk to them behind the scenes, they explain the Elon of it all in a much better way than they do when they go on television. They don't talk about him as an oligarch behind the scenes, right? They talk about him as someone who is in their eyes doing this, doing DOGE, because he wants to help his businesses at the end of the day, right? They're talking about that conflict of interest. That's something that the American people actually understand. But they, again, continue to miss an opportunity to actually --
KRISTEN WELKER:
Anna --
EUGENE DANIELS:
– do that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Anna, final 30 seconds. The relationship between Trump and Musk, one of the most extraordinary. And I'm told his low poll numbers actually help solidify that relationship.
ANNA PALMER:
I mean, we have all been watching so closely. "When is this going to blow up?" Right? Famously. And so far I think Sara points out they're really similar figures. And this is the only time you've seen Trump do an interview with a Cabinet secretary, let him speak like this. It's pretty astounding, and we'll all be watching to see how long it works.
KRISTEN WELKER:
We certainly will. What a great conversation, guys. Thank you so much. That is all for today. Thank you so much for watching. We will be back next week because if it's Sunday it's Meet the Press.