KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: Trump’s promise. Donald Trump vows to free those charged and convicted of crimes in the January 6th attack on the Capitol on his first day in office.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
We’re going to work with the people to treat those unbelievable patriots.
KRISTEN WELKER:
As his former vice president says he won’t be backing him in 2024.
FMR. VICE PRES. MIKE PENCE:
I will not be endorsing Donald Trump this year.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I’ll talk to Republican Senator Bill Cassidy of Louisiana, one of the seven Republicans who voted to convict Donald Trump. Plus: growing frustration. Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer calls for new leadership in Israel, warning Prime Minister Netanyahu is an obstacle to peace.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:
The Netanyahu coalition no longer fits the needs of Israel after October 7th.
SEN. MITCH McCONNELL:
This is unprecedented. We should not treat fellow democracies this way at all.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Is Israel's relationship with the U.S. in danger? I’ll talk to Democratic Senator Ben Cardin of Maryland, the Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. And feeding the world in our Meet the Moment conversation. Chef José Andrés, founder of World Central Kitchen, on his mission to deliver meals to people in crisis
JOSÉ ANDRÉS:
Think you're never prepared. The more I know, the more I know nothing.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Joining me for insight and analysis are: Jonathan Martin of Politico, Symone Sanders-Townsend, former chief spokeswoman for Vice President Kamala Harris, and Lanhee Chen, a fellow at the Hoover Institution. Welcome to Sunday. It’s Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest running show in television history. This is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning and Happy Saint Patrick's Day. In a week where Donald Trump officially became the presumptive Republican nominee for president, his threats of retribution are mounting. Promising one of his first acts as president would be to free those charged and convicted for attacking the Capitol on January 6th. Nearly 800 of whom have plead guilty to their crimes. On Ukraine, while he publicly says he supports a loan, he reportedly told Hungary's authoritarian leader in private he would cut off aid if re-elected. And last night at a rally in Ohio, he said some undocumented immigrants aren't people.
[START TAPE]
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
If I had prisons that were teeming with MS-13 and all sorts of people that they've got to take care of for the next 50 years, right? Young people that are in jail for years -- if you call them people. I don't know if you call them people. In some cases, they're not people in my opinion.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And while addressing the auto industry, the former president made this ominous comment.
[START TAPE]
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
We're going to put a 100% tariff on every single car that comes across the line, and you're not going to be able to sell those guys. If I get elected. Now if I don't get elected, it's going to be a bloodbath for the whole that's gonna be the least of it. It's going to be a bloodbath for the country. That will be the least of it. But they're not going to sell those cars.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
The Trump campaign tried to clarify saying he was talking about the auto industry and tariffs but the Biden campaign seized on the comments saying Mr. Trump is doubling down on his threats of political violence. At the same time, Donald Trump's delay tactics with the legal system seem to be working, for now. The New York hush money case, scheduled to begin next week, now delayed for 30 days, giving the defense more time to review documents. And in Georgia, the election interference case, the lead prosecutor Nathan Wade resigned on Friday. Wade was scheduled to appear on this broadcast today, but canceled last minute, citing a family emergency. There's one place Trump didn't get a break, his own Vice President Mike Pence, whose life was threatened on January 6, who said this on Friday.
[START TAPE]
FMR. VICE PRES. MIKE PENCE
Donald Trump is pursuing and articulating an agenda that is at odds with the conservative agenda that – that we governed on during our four years. And that's why, I cannot in good conscience endorse Donald Trump
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Joining me now, Republican Senator Bill Cassidy of Louisiana, one of only seven Republicans who voted to convict Donald Trump in his impeachment for attempting to overturn the 2020 election. Senator Cassidy, welcome back to Meet The Press.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Thanks so much for being here. I want to start by getting your reaction to Donald Trump's comments about a “bloodbath.” Do you think that those comments were appropriate?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
Two things about that. The general tone of the speech is why many Americans continue to wonder, "Should President Trump be president?" That kind of rhetoric, it's always on the edge, maybe doesn't cross, maybe does depending upon your perspective. I also think, though, that the mainstream media contributes to it. If you take the one about the bloodbath, which arguably could be about an economic bloodbath not about kind of street violence related to the election, then it gives his defenders something to focus on, something – which was distorted. So, yes, he always walks up to the edge on that rhetoric. And again, that's why people are concerned. But sometimes the mainstream media, whether they want to or not, can't resist and they go just a little bit too far, which distracts from what could be the impact.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And just to be very clear, you're saying it walks up to the line. Does that comment, even in that context, that broader backdrop of talking about the auto industry, does it cross a line for you? You heard what the Biden administration said. They say it's another sign that he's using terms related to political violence.L
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
Well, that's their perspective. They've got a candidate who also doesn't seem fit for office. And you could also look up the definition of bloodbath, and it could be an economic disaster. And so if he's speaking about the auto industry in particular in Ohio, then you can take it with a little bit more context. That's why I say you walk up to the line. Depending upon the perspective, somebody is going to interpret it. He's running against Biden, so Biden's going to say it's about political violence. His defenders want to defend him, and so they're going to say it's about economic disaster. There's always just that little bit of tension there, which allows the dispute about the interpretation as opposed to the kind of general sort of, "Is this a person we want to have in office?"
KRISTEN WELKER:
And what about his comments that undocumented immigrants, not all of them are “people.” What does it say about the Republican Party that the presumptive GOP nominee is using that kind of language, sending that message?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
Let me say – let me say first, he was speaking about the possibility of criminals being among the immigrants, and those are the people he was saying may not be people, if you will. On the other hand, clearly the president's rhetoric has reflected poorly in terms of regarding folks who are coming here illegally – illegally, and they shouldn't be – but in a dehumanizing fashion. And that's why, again, many people continue to have reservations. And I say the best thing going for Donald Trump running for president is that he's running against Joe Biden, about whom many people also have reservations. And frankly, that's why people are considering third parties. So it's a sorry state of affairs.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, let me ask you about some recent comments he made about January 6th. He said on the first day of a second term he would, quote, “free” those who've been charged and convicted with January 6th and committing crimes related to January 6th. Do you think that's appropriate, that people who've been convicted, in many cases have pled guilty, should be pardoned?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
I do not think it's appropriate. We're a nation of laws. And those folks were convicted, many times they pled guilty. If you plead guilty, i.e. obviously you are not a patriot. You're somebody who committed a criminal act. So I think that would be a wrong signal if you're the chief executive and you're responsible for enforcing the laws.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, you know, it's interesting, when you became one of those who voted to convict former President Trump in his second impeachment you said, "Our constitution and our country is more important than any one person." Do you believe that former President Trump would follow the Constitution in a second term?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
Now, that is a hypothetical, which is hard for me to kind of go at. And frankly, Kristen, that's the kind of question that people ask almost begging an answer. All I can say is that we have checks and balances within our system that if any one person attempts to act in an unconstitutional fashion that they can be theoretically checked. I'll also point out that Joe Biden has acted in an unconstitutional fashion when he attempted to forgive student loans and it was stopped in the Supreme Court. He found a workaround. I'm not sure the workaround is constitutional, but nonetheless, we have checks and balances. So I'm not defending the former president, but if you present me with that theoretical, I have to answer it in the context of how our government works.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But, Senator, can you really draw an equivalency between a legal battle over student loans and the idea that he tried to overturn a free and fair election? I mean, my question relates to, of course –
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
I’m not establishing –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– what happened on January 6th. And I didn't hear you say, yes, that you have confidence that he would defend the Constitution.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
So I'm not establishing – I’m not establishing equivalency at all, period, end of story. There is not. But I can't theoretically say, in the hypothetical, that Trump's going to do one thing or the other. But I'm not establishing equivalency between January 6th and what Biden has done.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you about former Vice President Mike Pence. As you know, he made a lot of headlines at the end of this week when he came out and said he's not going to endorse his former boss, Donald Trump. It comes as a number of Trump critics, from Mitch McConnell to Chris Sununu, Brian Kemp, have said they are going to endorse Donald Trump. I know you've gotten this question a lot, but now that he's the presumptive nominee, I have to ask. Will you endorse Donald Trump, Senator?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
I'm smiling because this keeps my streak – my streak unbroken on Meet the Press where I'm asked a question, either this or similar to that. In fact, my staff had an over/under as to how long it would take. At this point all I'll say is that I plan to vote for a Republican for the presidency of the United States.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, I have to continue the streak and ask you a couple of follow-ups to try to get an answer out of you, Senator. Just again, will you endorse him –
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
Well, you have an answer.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Are you ruling it out? I didn't hear you say, yes, you're going to endorse him.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
Again, no, the answer I'm going to give – and the answer I've given consistently whenever asked this on Meet the Press – is that I plan to vote for a Republican for the presidency of the United States.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You haven't endorsed him yet. Do you have any plans at this –
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
And I've answered this question so many times before, by the way. I've answered this question so many times before. Every show wants it on their show. But anyway, that's my answer.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I hear you. This week's a little different because he did just become the presumptive nominee. So you don't have any plans right now to endorse him. You plan to endorse and vote for, as you say, a Republican. Will you vote for Donald Trump or are you going to write in a name?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
Really good, Kristen. But I plan to vote for a Republican for the presidency of the United States.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You're not going to tell us. Can you – would you rule out voting for Donald Trump? Let me ask you that. Is it off the table for you?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
You know, I think, yeah, you're kind of beating a dead horse right now. I've been very explicit in what my answer is. And I've answered this in greater detail in times past. And so I'm just going to stay where I just said. I plan to vote for a Republican for the presidency of the United States.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Let me ask you this. You have not closed the door publicly on a third-party run. We've learned that No Labels does in fact plan to run a candidate. Have you been approached by No Labels, and is there any chance that you would run on a No Labels ticket?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
You know, I was never seriously considered to be their candidate. It was reported in the press otherwise, but I was never seriously considered. So that kind of – obviously, the answer is not. So, on the other hand, the very fact that No Labels did, that I was floated, I will say has a certain rationale to it. People at No Labels actually want answers to serious problems in our country. And right now neither candidate is actually offering serious solutions. You've heard me speak about Social Security before. Neither candidate is offering something which has a snowball's chance of passing Congress, and yet Social Security will become insolvent in about eight years. So, wait, it's going insolvent in eight years and neither candidate is offering a solution which has a snowball's chance in Hades in order to getting passed. So the very fact that I speak about that means that, "Wait a second. This might be somebody whom we would consider because this person is talking about serious – serious answers to serious problems."
KRISTEN WELKER:
Just to be very clear –
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
I'll point out by the way, that if Social Security goes insolvent, there'll be a 24% cut in benefits for everybody receiving it. That's why it's so serious.
KRISTEN WELKER:
We're getting to Social Security right now. But just to be clear, you're not running on a No Labels ticket? I just want to be clear about that.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
I'm not.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. Let's get to Social Security. You say neither candidate has a plan. Biden has put forward a plan. Part of that will be raising taxes on businesses, large corporations. On Monday, Donald Trump said he would be open to cutting Social Security. He walked those comments back. But do you think that Trump can be trusted on the issue of Social Security, to protect Social Security?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
Well, define “protect Social Security.” Neither candidate's put up a plan that will prevent the mandatory 24% cut in benefits when the trust fund goes bankrupt. And by the way, Biden's plan, he's already proposed $4.2 trillion on wealthier Americans, and now he's going to tax them again for this. At some point you can confiscate the wealth of wealthier Americans and you wouldn't achieve everything that he's saying that he's going to do. This is kind of like his go-to. "I'm going to tax wealthier Americans to fill-in-the-blank." It's just not practical the way he's proposing it. But it gives him the talking point. People want to move beyond talking points. They want actual answers. We're not getting them.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, part of your plan involves an investment fund. And the challenge and the criticism is that would that not pose serious risks to investors, essentially leaving Social Security to the chance of the market, the stock market?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
No. In our proposal we actually created a trust fund separate from – an investment fund separate from the Social Security trust fund. So no risk is borne by the beneficiary. She is going to be able to – we're going to repeal that law that says she gets a 24% cut, and we'll use the money here to offset whatever borrowing is required to pay her her benefits until it's fully kind of accounted for. And so actually no exposure. And if you look at the stock market returns since 1929 it's averaged 8.5% return. And so, yeah, there might be some time in the future where it dips down, but history shows that it increases back up. And by the way, this is what every, every pension fund, almost in the world, does except for Social Security. We need to follow best practices.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, before I let you go I have to ask you about the House-backed bill on TikTok, which effectively requires the Chinese-owned company ByteDance to sell it or face a total ban of TikTok in this country, which has been deemed a national security threat. Will you vote for this in the Senate if it comes to the floor for a vote?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
I'd like to see the final language, but I'm certainly predisposed to vote for it. Anyone that doesn't think that the Chinese Communist Party would like to influence how we think in our country just doesn't understand what they do. They have members of the board of directors – Chinese Communist Party – has members on the board of directors of Byte Dance, the parent company of this. And in previous times the federal government has required the sale of a Chinese social media company over these sorts of national security concerns. And so I think this is consistent with what we've done in the past, and by and large I support it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Senator Cassidy, thank you so much for joining me this morning. I really appreciate it. When we come back –
SEN. BILL CASSIDY:
Thank you, Kristen –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– Democratic senator Ben Cardin of Maryland, the chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. This week Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, the highest ranking Jewish elected official in the country, and a strong supporter of Israel, took to the Senate floor to call for new elections in Israel as the humanitarian crisis in Gaza worsens by the day.
[START TAPE]
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER:
As a lifelong supporter of Israel, it has become clear the Netanyahu coalition no longer fits the needs of Israel after October 7th. The world has changed radically since then. And the Israeli people are being stifled right now by a governing vision that is stuck in the past.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
The backlash from Israel was swift. Israeli ambassador to the U.S., Michael Herzog, calling the speech “unhelpful” and “counterproductive.” Republican lawmakers also lined up to criticize the Senate leader.
[START TAPE]
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL:
It is grotesque and hypocritical for Americans who hyperventilate about foreign interference in our own democracy to call for the removal of a democratically elected leader of Israel.
REP. MIKE JOHNSON:
This is not only highly inappropriate, it's just plain wrong for an American leader to play such a divisive role in Israeli politics while our closest ally in the region is in an existential battle for its very survival.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Schumer however found support in the White House with President Biden weighing in Friday.
[START TAPE]
PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN:
He made a good speech and I think he expressed a serious concern shared not only by him, but by many Americans.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Joining me now is Democratic Senator and Chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Ben Cardin. Senator Cardin, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. BEN CARDIN:
Kristen, it's great to be with you. Thank you very much.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It is so great to have you here in person. I want to ask you about Leader Schumer's comments on the Senate floor. He called Prime Minister Netanyahu an "obstacle to peace." President Biden said, “It was a good speech.” Do you think Prime Minister Netanyahu is an obstacle to peace?
SEN. BEN CARDIN:
I think people should listen to his entire speech. Senator Schumer's speech came from his heart, what he believes is necessary for peace. He is very clear about Hamas needs to be eliminated, that there can be no peace in the Middle East for either Palestinians or the Israelis with Hamas.The responsibilities for what is happening there is clearly on Hamas. Israel has the total right to defend itself. And then he's talking about, how do we move after the war? How do we get peace in the region? And he was very clear about the fact that you need security. You need an authority for the Palestinians that will provide security for the Palestinians and the Israelis. But you also need to have a pathway to two states living together in peace. And I think he was very clear that the Israelis, their system, need to give clear direction as to who they want to be their leaders.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Would you go so far though, Senator – and I hear you saying he gave context in his speech – but would you go so far as to call Netanyahu an obstacle to peace, given his opposition to a two-state solution?
SEN. BEN CARDIN:
I think it's up to the Israelis to determine their own leaders. I recognize that we had challenges with the Netanyahu coalition prior to October 7th, real concerns that caused major division within Israel before October 7th. There's unity now because of the war. Let's see what happens after the war.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, you make a really interesting point and in fact, according to a U.S. intelligence report, Netanyahu's viability as a leader may be in jeopardy. As you know there have been protests throughout Israel because of how he's handling the war right now. Do you think Netanyahu is the right leader for this moment?
SEN. BEN CARDIN:
Well, we got to get past – I think the Israelis recognize they got to get past Hamas at this particular moment. Once there is security in Gaza and there is security for the Palestinians and the Israelis, the Israelis need to focus on who they want their leader to be. We don't want to see a repeat of October 7th. Nobody wants to see that. But it means you have to have a pathway towards peace. You need to have security. You need two states living together side-by-side in peace. Who is the right leader? It's up to the Israelis.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. Uh, President Biden said that if Prime Minister Netanyahu goes into Rafah, that that would be a red line for him. I wonder what you think should happen, if Netanyahu goes into Rafah. If there's no clear plan presented to the United States for protecting U.S. – for protecting civilians, I should say, should the U.S. consider withholding aid and weapons to Israel?
SEN. BEN CARDIN:
With a trusted friend, a long mature relationship, you don't look for a transactional leverage in order to deal with your conversations. You have frank and honest discussions, and you try to find a common path forward. There is clear that going into Rafah at this particular moment, where so many people – so many Palestinians, that you just, you have to make arrangements to make sure the people that are there are not going to be at undue risk. And the Israelis have acknowledged that. So we're going to deal with our foreign policy based upon our values. At times we may disagree with Israel, but it'll be a relationship of friends.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You’re saying we don't use leverage, but isn't this the right time to use leverage, when you have this growing humanitarian crisis and Schumer and President Biden saying, "Israel's not doing enough to protect civilian lives in Gaza?” Why not use all of the leverage at the United States’ disposal?
SEN. BEN CARDIN:
The U.S. has tremendous leverage in our conversations with Israel, and we use that leverage. We don't have to do it through conditionality.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you – why, I should say, do you think that you have not gone as far as leader Schumer and President Biden in being critical of how Israel is conducting this war, and, again, the growing humanitarian crisis that we're witnessing in Gaza?
SEN. BEN CARDIN:
I would say I'm deeply concerned about what is happening in Gaza today, about the humanitarian crisis. We all have a responsibility, including Israel, to do more to help in regard to humanitarian assistance. We need to do more to get the hostages released. So, no, I'm not satisfied about what's happening on the ground. We need to be much more aggressive in dealing with this crisis. Innocent people are dying, and we can't let that happen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let's turn to Ukraine now. There's obviously been a big debate over whether more aid will be sent to Ukraine and what the form of that will be. Former President Donald Trump has said he would support it only if it's in the form of a loan. Is that something that you would support, Senator?
SEN. BEN CARDIN:
No, I think Ukraine needs to have – we got to get help to Ukraine. If it starts as a loan, if we can't do anything other than that, we might have to consider that. But this is in our national security interest. All they're asking for us is resources, not our troops. Ukraine is not the end of Russia's aggression. If they win in Ukraine, they'll go further. I've met with the president of Poland this past week. The prime minister of Estonia, I had a chance to talk to her last night. There are – there are NATO allies that are at risk, and that means U.S. soldiers. So we should be – we should have done it well before now. We shouldn't be hesitating in providing this aid.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you think that's the only realistic path, though, this loan that’s being discussed? And again, it sounds like you're open to it, if you reach that conclusion.
SEN. BEN CARDIN:
I want to see the supplemental pass as is. That's the way we get aid in as quickly as possible. It passed by an overwhelming majority in the United States Senate. It provides the aid that Ukraine desperately needs. It provides humanitarian assistance that we need. It helps Israel. It helps our allies in the Indo-Pacific. We need to get that done. It also helps our military resupply what they need. And it's all done through aid here in the United States to provide the resources. We need to get that done. That's the way you get things done quickly. If we try a different path, it's going to take a long time. Ukraine needs the help today. They don't have the ammunition they need. They're fighting Russia that recognizes there is a weakness here, because of the lack of equipment. No, we shouldn't be looking at alternatives. We should be passing the supplemental.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I have to ask you what I was just talking to Senator Cassidy about, TikTok, this bill which just passed the House again. The House bill would effectively require ByteDance, the parent company, to sell TikTok or face a total ban in the U.S. Is that something you would support, if it did come for a vote in the Senate?
SEN. BEN CARDIN:
We are concerned about what TikTok does with this information, whether they could use it against Americans and use – evade privacy and compromise our national security. Our concern is on the ownership of TikTok. It's not on those that are using it. It's not on freedom of speech or content. It's solely on ownership. And by the way, we have concerns on all the social media platforms, as to safety, particularly for our children. So, there's some broader issues. But TikTok's concern is whether the Chinese will be using it against our national security interest.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But if this bill in its current form came before you, would you vote yes on it?
SEN. BEN CARDIN:
I'm certainly sympathetic to it. Let's see how it goes through the Senate process. But yes, I think we need to put guardrails in regard to the ownership of TikTok.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So you're open to it, it sounds like, but haven't made a final decision.
SEN. BEN CARDIN:
No, because I think we'll see how the Senate wants to take this up and consider it. As I said, there are issues concerning safety for our children. So there's some other issues that may get combined with this. So I – I'll be working with my colleagues. But I'd like to see us get to the finish line and provide the guardrails that are necessary.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me switch gears. You became the chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee when New Jersey Senator Bob Menendez was indicted on bribery charges. He stepped down from his post. We now have reporting that he's considering potentially running for re-election as an independent. We asked him about that – our reporters did. He didn't rule it out. What is your reaction? What do you make of him running for re-election as an independent, if that happens?
SEN. BEN CARDIN:
So, these are very serious charges. His trial's coming up shortly. My responsibility in taking over the chairmanship of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee is to make sure that committee can function and deal with the challenges that we have globally. So, I'm going to focus on my responsibilities as chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. And we'll see how these matters come out.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Have to ask you one more, before I let you go: You are retiring at the age of 80. Obviously, age has been in the spotlight against the backdrop of this election cycle. Do you think there should be an age limit for elected office?
SEN. BEN CARDIN:
No, I don't think there should be an age limit for elected office. If I could just correct you a little bit: I'm not retiring. I'm just not running for re-election –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Running for re-election. Yes, thank you. Not running for re-election, an important distinction.
SEN. BEN CARDIN:
So, but no, I think each person has to make their own decision. I had to make an eight-year decision when I made my – because it was two years before the election. It's a six-year term. And I think it's the right decision.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. Alright. Senator Cardin, thank you so much for being here. Great to have you in person.
SEN. BEN CARDIN:
Thank you. Good to be with –
KRISTEN WELKER:
We really appreciate it.
SEN. BEN CARDIN:
– you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And when we come back, Democrats are playing it cool in the face of polls showing President Biden trailing Trump. Are they right not to worry? The panel is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is here: Jonathan Martin of Politico; Lanhee Chen, a fellow at the Hoover Institution; and Symone Sanders-Townsend, former chief spokeswoman for Vice President Kamala Harris. Thanks to all of you for being here. I want to start on Trump's legal battles, and specifically the drama that is playing out in Georgia. This week a judge effectively ruled that the top prosecutor or the district attorney, one of the two, had to come off of the case –
JONATHAN MARTIN:
Right.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– after allegations there was a conflict of interest because they had a romantic relationship. Nathan Wade decided to step down. He was supposed to be here this morning. He decided not to be citing a family emergency. But, Jonathan, what do you make of this politically? How do the politics of this all play out?
JONATHAN MARTIN:
The whole Trump strategy, Kristen, is to muddy the waters on these cases, blur them as sort of one great persecution against him and bet that the American voter can't keep pace with all the details, and by the way, "Oh, if there are some hiccups along the way here in some of these individual cases, well, all the better for me, and I'll try to buy time by delaying and appealing and pushing these things back the best I can to after the election and bet that I can win the election and then try to pardon myself, at least in the federal cases." That is obviously what he's up to. And we're here on Saint Patrick's Day. So far he appears to have had a – a pretty good string of luck in – in that strategy.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Symone, what do you – what do you make of that? And do you expect any of these cases to go to trial? Because as Jonathan's pointing out, I mean, look, all of these cases have been delayed now. That hush money case was supposed to start at the end of the month, and now that's not even going to happen.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
Literally delay, delay, delay. In Georgia, I think delay – this delay came about because we were distracted. This was an entire distraction of salacious gossip that because there was a formal inquiry the judge had to hear it. And then we had these evidentiary hearings and instead we're talking about Nathan Wade and D.A. Fani Willis' relationship and not the fact that Donald Trump and his allies in Georgia and across the country tried to steal an election. And that is why there is a case in Georgia in the first place. I – I think perhaps in New York we're going to see that case go.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You do? Okay.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
I don't know about any of the others. That's my bet.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Lanhee, what do you – what do you make of all of this?
LANHEE CHEN:
I think there are two things that come through in all of this in Georgia for – for most voters. Number one, this is a hot mess, okay? This whole thing has become a hot mess. And that leads to number two, which is I think if you look at recent survey research out of Georgia, what you find is voters say, "This is a politically motivated prosecution." And that, by the way, is the message that the Trump campaign and the Trump team has been emphasizing all along. And so I really think fundamentally, to – to Jonathan's point, this strategy is working for the former president. What he is doing is working, in terms of saying, “Look, there's a lot of stuff out there. But fundamentally what this is about is a witch hunt against me.” –
JONATHAN MARTIN:
Yeah, yeah. Bottom line, Democrats –
LANHEE CHEN:
– and I think that's working for him.
JONATHAN MARTIN:
Yeah. Bottom line, Democrats can't count on the legal system to take care of Trump. He's going to have to be beaten in the political court, right?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
JONATHAN MARTIN:
Biden's going to have beat him at the polls.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
Yeah, absolutely. But this – I mean he – there – all of these cases Donald Trump brought upon himself.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
He's the one that kept the documents in Florida after the archives begged him to give them back. You know, he is the person that got on the phone asking for 11,780 votes and attempted to steal an election. He's the person that tried to cover up the relationship with Stormy Daniels because he thought it was going to affect the election.
JONATHAN MARTIN:
Right.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
I mean, he did say it was going to be wild and encourage people to march on the Capitol. The insurrection is, like, a block away from us.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Lanhee, it plays differently in a general election than it does in a primary, doesn't it?
LANHEE CHEN:
It – it does. But I think for independent voters, which is what we really care about, right, or potentially soft Republican voters, I do think some of it's become background noise. Unless and until there's a disposition, again, until there's a disposition. That will be the difference. And if you look at all the polling, that is fairly consistent. If there's a disposition in one of these cases, then it does change the dynamic. And that is why you see the legal strategy now becoming a political strategy. And that's why this – the question of timing is so important.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It's great – it’s a really great point. The other thing that we all saw this week, Special Counsel Robert Hur testified about his report on the classified documents handling by President Biden. Of course he decided not to charge him, Symone, basically infuriating Democrats and Republicans with his testimony by the way, a bipartisan moment, if you will. It comes as we are getting this new reporting about the Biden campaign – about President Biden himself and how he is taking, especially all of these polls which show him in some cases losing to former President Trump, basically our reporting says that Biden has grown angry and anxious about his re-election efforts. Symone, is that what you're hearing in your conversations with Democrats?
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
Well, yeah. I mean, look, if I were running for election against a person like Donald Trump who has as many issues as he has and has committed as many potential – alleged acts of criminality as he has and you saw polls that said I was losing to him, even I would be like, "Well, what is going on here in America?" And so I – I have heard the frustration from Democrats but also that they do believe there is time and opportunity to get their message out now that it is a one-on-one, Trump and Biden, make that contrast so that folks understand their choice come November.
JONATHAN MARTIN:
But he's got to drive the message though.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I – yeah.
JONATHAN MARTIN:
I mean, Biden's got to make the case every day against Trump, almost as though he's more of a challenger than the incumbent, right? He's got to sort of do that, prosecute the case against Trump.
KRISTEN WELKER:
How do you do that –
JONATHAN MARTIN:
Well –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– from the Oval Office?
JONATHAN MARTIN:
Well, I mean –
KRISTEN WELKER:
That's his challenge.
JONATHAN MARTIN:
Look, I think you have to have an army of surrogates out there helping you every day. And I think you also have to try to get out there and do it yourself more aggressively. But there's so many examples. Just take the TikTok case, where Trump changes his mind on banning TikTok, clearly in part because of the influence of a billionaire with a stake in TikTok. If you're a Democrat how do you not scream that from the rooftops? This is brazen corruption. But where is that aggressiveness? I think it still remains to be seen if Biden can prosecute this case.
LANHEE CHEN:
I – look, I think that there's two angles that – that they can take here. One is this democracy angle. I – I would submit to –
JONATHAN MARTIN:
That's a loser.
LANHEE CHEN:
I don't think it's working. I don't think it's working.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It has – they would argue it has in the past. They would say it did–
LANHEE CHEN:
Well, 2020's not –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– in 2020 and 2022.
LANHEE CHEN:
– 2024.
JONATHAN MARTIN:
Abortion rights in '22 –
LANHEE CHEN:
I will tell you –
JONATHAN MARTIN:
– was much more helpful.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, that's a fair point.
LANHEE CHEN:
– there – the – the biggest –
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
And abortion is part of the democracy argument.
LANHEE CHEN:
– the biggest intervening factor between 2020 and 2024 has been inflation. And that has come into effect, and people really feel the impact of that. So unless the Biden team goes directly on the economy and talks about how a second term of President Biden would potentially be better economically than a second term of President Trump, I think that's the argument that they've got to go to. And I get it's a tough argument to make because we're still inclined to believe President Trump's better on it.
JONATHAN MARTIN:
– who was so dependent upon his opponent to win re-election. I –
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
Yes, but this is not a normal election.
JONATHAN MARTIN:
– mean, Biden needs Trump – of course it's not.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
This is not a normal time. So I – I think this is –
JONATHAN MARTIN:
Right. Look at Trump's comments yesterday. Yeah.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
Yes, exactly, talking about the January 6th criminals as hostages, promising a bloodbath, demonizing immigrants, saying they are not human. So I just think this isn't a normal election.
JONATHAN MARTIN:
That –
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
So, the democracy –
JONATHAN MARTIN:
That’s better for Biden though.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
–the democracy plus what you're going to do for the voters, is what is going to speak to them, I believe.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Great conversation. You guys didn't need me here at all. Thank you.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
It's your table. We're happy to be here.
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, age it seems is a potential liability in the 2024 campaign, but it was also an issue in the last presidential rematch in 1956. Our Meet The Press Minute is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. Concerns over President Biden and former President Trump's age are not the first time a president's health has come under intense scrutiny. The 34th president, Dwight Eisenhower, suffered a heart attack and was hospitalized in his first term, raising questions about whether he was physically fit for office as he sought reelection in 1956. As former First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt argued on this broadcast, the issue of the president's health brought an intense focus on his vice president, Richard Nixon.
[START TAPE]
LAWRENCE SPIVAK:
Even before the campaign started the Democrats indicated that they were going to lay great stress on the slogan, "A vote for Eisenhower is a vote for Nixon." Do you think that that's either a real issue or a good issue?
ELEANOR ROOSEVELT:
I think it's an issue you have to face because at no time do any of us know what may happen to us. Therefore, when we elect a president and a vice president we must be prepared to face the fact that the vice president may become president. That may happen to anybody at any time. And I think all of us should face that issue and know whether we are prepared to elect on that basis.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, celebrity chef José Andrés, the founder of World Central Kitchen, joins me for our Meet the Moment conversation.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. Chef José Andrés says he doesn't know if he even describes himself as a chef anymore. To the world, he’s one of the most significant humanitarians of the twenty-first century. World Central Kitchen, the aid organization he founded, is the first group on the frontlines of crises around the world, from the earthquake in Haiti, to the war in Ukraine. its mission: feeding the people impacted by disaster and hardship. Recently, Andrés has been on the ground in Gaza, working to bring more food and aid into the territory, with officials warning famine is imminent. This week, I sat down with José Andrés as the first shipment of humanitarian aid into Gaza by sea departed from Cyprus thanks to a new maritime corridor that World Central Kitchen organized.
[START TAPE]
JOSÉ ANDRÉS:
What we cannot do is just fail the people of Gaza. That will be the true failure. It's not trying. So we're trying. And I hope that in a few days we can say we've had a little success, and from that success everybody being comfortable that this is possible, we can build a bigger system to bring huge quantities of food daily into the shores of Gaza.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Now that aid has now been offloaded in Gaza, and a second ship with more food and supplies is being prepared now. In our Meet the Moment conversation, I asked chef Andrés about the crisis in Gaza and whether Israel should be doing more to help.
JOSÉ ANDRÉS:
Should Israel be doing more? Totally. A ceasefire should be happening immediately. The hostages should be released, totally. What is a little bit difficult to understand is how you are doing a mission to try to liberate your fellow citizens, but you are bombing, at times, building after building that you may have those hostages right in those buildings. So if the true intention of that is releasing the hostages, I would not say this is the most clever way to try to take them out alive. At the very least, if they don't stop the military advance, to make sure that nobody's hungry and that nobody's without food and water. This is something that should be happening overnight. But for political reasons, I guess, it's not happening yet.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let's talk about the history of World Central Kitchen. The first major conflict zone, war, that you went into was in Ukraine. What was that like? And how did it prepare you for the work that you're doing now in Gaza?
JOSÉ ANDRÉS:
Well, I think you're never prepared. The more I know, the more I know nothing. With boots on the ground is when life shows you experience. Many of the things World Central Kitchen has ever done, it's not like we have a manual. You learn as you go. We were on the first day of the liberation of Bucha in airplane. We saw the atrocities that the Russian military did to those men and women, with people on the ground with shot in their head with a piece of bread next to their hand. Just for going out and trying to bring their bread to feed their children, people were being shot. We lost people. We got bakeries bombed, kitchens bombed. We lost six people in three different bombings in the places they were sleeping. They were in a bunker. When the missile just gets on top, sometimes there's not much you can do. So this gave me an understanding and a feeling I never had before.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Are you worried that the world is starting to forget about what's happening in Ukraine – what is still happening in Ukraine – as there's so much focus, rightfully so, on the war in the Middle East now?
JOSÉ ANDRÉS:
Obviously, Ukraine has been forgotten. And this conflict has made that even worse. Ukraine is a country that is defending themselves. I'm not a man of war. I'm a man of peace. But they are defending their land. If they don't defend their land, they have no land left. So it's very different when you attack than when you are defending yourself. So I do believe the United States should be far and way more. Europe should be doing far and way more. We are letting these people, that they've shown they know how to defend themselves, almost alone and forgotten. I do believe that if we don't stand to leaders that want to bring mayhem and chaos to the world, the world is not a better place.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Are you ever afraid?
JOSÉ ANDRÉS:
Oh I don’t think – you are always afraid. But you are next to people that support each other. And even if we all are afraid, what are you going to do? By being conscious, almost it's like it disappears.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Your new cookbook, named after this restaurant, Zaytinya, focuses on Mediterranean food. Talk about the significance of that and what you hope people will take from this new cookbook that you have.
JOSÉ ANDRÉS:
Well, listen, you know, especially we're connected to what's happening in the Middle East right now. Everybody has a huge love for food, especially now with Ramadan. The family's coming together to break fast, and being a very important moment. But the time I spend in Israel and the time I've been spending in Gaza, seems everybody loves falafel and everybody loves hummus with equal intensity. It makes you wonder how – how people that love the same foods, they can be at odds with each other. Right here in this restaurant, I have longer tables. When you bring people together around a table with the foods they love, that's a beautiful, powerful moment. I wish – I wish my words were not just romantic words that everybody will agree with, and that food could be an amazing, powerful medium used to bring people together. But it is true. Zaytinya celebrates hundreds if not thousands of years of – of traditions and dishes with different cultures, that everybody has added their touch that makes the Mediterranean cooking in the East fascinating.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And just finally, given that you are immersed in all of this difficult work in all of these places that are experiencing so much pain and violence right now, what gives you hope and optimism?
JOSÉ ANDRÉS:
Listen, the hope and optimism I have is that when – when early days – the first day of the brutal attack against different Israeli communities, World Central Kitchen began feeding right there. And with the help of– of locals, not only Israeli but other nationalities. Not only Jewish, but people from other religions. They're all coming together to help us bring food and relief to those people that were decimated on that brutal attack. At the same time – so there I saw people helping people. The best humanity in the worst moments of humanity. Nobody should be wishing bad to others. Breaking bread with people in Gaza and breaking bread with people in Israel, that's the feeling you get. That they don't wish the others anything wrong. That everybody wants peace and prosperity. Because I do believe it's what the vast majority of people want. We need to give those people the place at the table, and their voices must be heard. Because there's more people of good than people of mayhem. Let's give the table to the people of goodness.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You can watch my full interview with José Andrés at MeetThePress.com. His new cookbook "Zaytinya" is out March 19th. And Andrés will be on the TODAY show on Tuesday so be sure to tune in. Before we go, we'd like to give a final mention to Betty Cole Dukert, former executive producer of Meet the Press, who passed away Saturday at the age of 96. She was a producer with the show for 41 years, starting as an assistant to Lawrence Spivak in 1956. She was a cherished member of the Meet the Press family, and she will be sorely missed. That's all for today, thanks for watching. We'll be back next week, because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.