KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: background checks.
MATT GAETZ:
I’m looking forward to a hearing.
KRISTEN WELKER:
President-elect Donald Trump’s Cabinet picks are facing intense scrutiny, after his first choice for attorney general, Matt Gaetz, withdraws his nomination amid serious allegations of sexual misconduct.
SEN. KEVIN CRAMER:
I was surprised by how abruptly it happened.
SEN. RON JOHNSON:
He was controversial. He understood that.
SEN. PETER WELCH:
Apparently, he was aware of reality.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Will Mr. Trump's other controversial picks face more opposition from Senate Republicans? Plus:
the agenda. Donald Trump is planning to roll out a series of executive orders within hours of taking office for his second administration.
STEPHEN MILLER:
He will immediately sign executive orders sealing the border shut, beginning the largest deportation operation in American history.
KRISTEN WELKER:
What are Mr. Trump's top priorities? And: missile threat. As the war in Ukraine passes the 1,000 day mark, tensions are rising in the region, after the Biden Administration lifts restrictions on long range weapons and Vladimir Putin fires back using a new hypersonic ballistic missile. My guests this morning: Democratic Senator-elect Adam Schiff of California and Republican Senator Eric Schmitt of Missouri. Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Senior White House Correspondent Kelly O’Donnell; former Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson; Anna Palmer, co-founder of Punchbowl News; and Stephen Hayes, editor of The Dispatch. Welcome to Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER
Good Sunday morning. President-elect Donald Trump has finished rolling out a pre-holiday flurry of Cabinet picks, remaking the Justice Department, the Pentagon and the intelligence community with loyalists. On Tuesday, as a growing number of Republican Senators demanded the release of a House ethics report into allegations former Florida Congressman Matt Gaetz paid women for sex, including a 17-year old in 2017, the President-elect denied he was reconsidering Gaetz.
[BEGIN TAPE]
REPORTER:
Mr. President, are you reconsidering the nomination of Matt Gaetz?
PRES.-ELECT DONALD TRUMP:
No.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
But just two days later, Gaetz withdrew from consideration, though he continues to deny wrongdoing.
[BEGIN TAPE]
MATT GAETZ:
I was dealing with a politically motivated body. They had an ax to grind. So that was going to serve as at least enough of a basis to delay my confirmation as attorney general.
REPORTER:
Was this decision a surprise to you?
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN:
No. I was surprised at the timing of it. I figured it would go a lot, a little longer than this, but ultimately, I think you can see the writing on the wall.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Now hours after Gaetz dropped out, President-elect Trump named former two-term Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi, who served on Mr. Trump's defense team during his first impeachment trial, instead. After Mr. Trump lost the 2020 election, Bondi amplified his false claims of election fraud.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PAM BONDI:
As Eric Trump said, we are thrilled to have won Pennsylvania. We have won Pennsylvania and they're not going to take it away from us.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Now, Bondi has been a vocal critic of the criminal cases against Mr. Trump, as well as of special counsel Jack Smith, who charged him in two federal cases.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PAM BONDI:
The Department of Justice, the prosecutors will be prosecuted, the bad ones. The investigators will be investigated. Because the deep state, last term for President Trump, they were hiding in the shadows, but now they have a spotlight on them, and they can all be investigated, and the House needs to be cleaned out, because now we know who most of them are.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
According to the Washington Post, President-elect Trump plans to fire the team that worked with the special counsel. The press secretary for Mr. Trump's transition team responding, quote, "President Trump campaigned on firing rogue bureaucrats who have engaged in the illegal weaponization of our American justice system, and the American people can expect he will deliver on that promise." A key question now that Gaetz has dropped out, will other Trump picks face more intense scrutiny, including his pick to lead the Pentagon, Pete Hegseth, who faces questions about sexual assault allegations which he denies, and former Democratic Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard, who made two secret visits to Syrian Dictator Bashar Assad in 2017. She has also amplified Kremlin talking points, blaming the U.S. for Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Ambassador Nikki Haley weighing in.
[BEGIN TAPE]
NIKKI HALEY:
This is not a place for a Russian, Iranian, Syrian, Chinese sympathizer. DNI has to analyze real threats. Are we comfortable with someone like that at the top of our national intelligence agencies?
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Now NBC News has learned that within hours of taking office, President-elect Trump plans to roll out a series of executive actions aligned with his campaign promises, including setting in motion the large-scale deportation of people living in the country illegally.
[BEGIN TAPE]
TOM HOMAN:
To those people who say they’re going to stop us from doing what we're doing, they will not. We have no problem finding a place to detain these people. It's going to cost money, so we got to have the money to do it, but President Trump's going to do everything he can to make sure we have the funds to do this.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Mr. Trump and his allies disavowed the conservative policy blueprint, Project 2025, during the campaign.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRES.-ELECT DONALD TRUMP:
I don't know what the hell it is, it's project 25 - he's involved in project, and then they read some of these things and they are extreme, I mean they're seriously extreme. I have no idea what Project 2025 is. I never read it, and I never will.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
But with the campaign over, Trump's transition team is turning to Project 2025 to help staff the next administration, picking its co-author Russell Vought to lead the office of management and budget, as he did in Mr. Trump's first term. Top Trump aides are praising the pick.
[BEGIN TAPE]
STEPHEN MILLER:
Russ Vought has been the guy for the last four years who's been developing the plan to take down the deep state. That's Russ, and he's going to be right there at OMB to execute that plan.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And joining me now is Republican Senator Eric Schmitt of Missouri. Senator Schmitt, welcome to Meet the Press.
SEN. ERIC SCHMITT:
It's great to be with you just two and a half weeks after President Trump completed the greatest political comeback in American history, winning all the battleground states, the popular vote, getting a mandate from the American people to shake things up in Washington and I look forward to helping him do that with our new majority in the Senate and with our friends in the House.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, it's great to have you here and to have your perspective. Let's start right there and this decision by former Congressman Matt Gaetz to withdraw his name from consideration for attorney general. It comes as NBC News has learned that five Republican senators were planning to vote against Gaetz. Do you believe it was a mistake by President-elect Trump to pick Gaetz in the first place, senator?
SEN. ERIC SCHMITT:
Well, I think Matt Gaetz made a decision, and I respect that decision. And we're moving on now to the nominee that he's chosen, Pam Bondi, who I know very well. We come from state attorney general world. Pam has taken on the tough fights. She took on drug trafficking.
She took on human trafficking. She's a tough career prosecutor. She's smart. She's tough. It's a great pick. And the Justice Department is ripe for reform. So, I think President Trump is picking reformers for these Cabinet positions. He campaigned on that, and he's delivering on that promise.
KRISTEN WELKER:
We are going to delve into that in just a moment but just to stay on this issue of Matt Gaetz for a moment, given the severity of allegations he was facing, allegations of sexual misconduct including that he had sex with a minor at a party in 2017, which he denies, but do you think that he should've been picked in the first place?
SEN. ERIC SCHMITT:
I think President Trump deserves the ability, with the mandate that he got from the American people, to put people in positions who are going to do reform. There's some things we can do in Congress, oversight and legislation. But you really need reformers at the head of these different agencies. And I think you're seeing that as a common theme. I'm sure we'll talk about more of them. But there really is a lot of reform that needs to happen in the administrative state, and he's talked about it a lot on the campaign trail. And, like I said, he's delivering on that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, let's talk about Pam Bondi, who we were just talking about, the former Florida attorney general. Bondi has vowed to, quote, investigate the investigators, to prosecute the prosecutors. A different tone than you have struck, Senator. You've said that the DOJ should be, quote, "Going back to fighting crime and not settling political scores." How do you square those two different views?
SEN. ERIC SCHMITT:
Well, I will tell you that Pam Bondi has a track record. She's a very serious person. And I think she's seen the weaponization, everybody's seen this weaponization of the Justice Department over the last four years. It really is a tragedy for a once respected agency that has gone after Catholics, it's gone after parents who showed up to school board meetings under the auspices of the Patriot Act. This is in the United States of America. And then clearly weaponized that department, Joe Biden did and Merrick Garland, to go after their chief political opponent. And I'll tell you, Kristen, the arc of that story's really terrifying if you care about the republic. After the midterms Joe Biden said that there was no way President Trump would ever be back in the White House. After that speech these zombie cases were resurrected. The number three person from DOJ went to New York and he had the Alvin Bragg case. The number two prosecutor in Atlanta went to the White House and coordinated. You saw all these cases resurrected. They all fell apart under the weight of the law. And so, I do think there needs to be accountability. I think that getting back to crime fighting is important, but there has to be accountability for these kinds of abuses.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. What specifically does accountability look like, Senator? Are you suggesting you want to see Special Counsel Jack Smith, Attorney General Merrick Garland prosecuted? Is that what you are implying?
SEN. ERIC SCHMITT:
Well, no. I think accountability means, first and foremost, the people involved in this should be fired immediately. And anybody part of this effort to keep President Trump off the ballot, and to throw him in jail for the rest of his life because they didn't like his politics and to continue to cast him as a quote unquote threat to democracy was wrong. And so, we'll see where that goes. But I just don't think in this country, unless we want to be a banana republic, I don't want to see that happen, you can't have the Justice Department abused in this way. Pam Bondi is a smart, capable, tough person who I think is going to restore respect in that department.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So, she has your vote, Senator?
SEN. ERIC SCHMITT:
Oh, absolutely. I intend to help Pam Bondi get the votes. I know her well. She's a friend. I've come to respect Pam Bondi. She was a great attorney general in Florida. This is a home run by President Trump.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Well, let's talk about another potential nominee. More details about the sexual assault allegation against Pete Hegseth, Mr. Trump's pick for the defense secretary. The police report filed at the time says, and I'm going to read this for you, quote, "Jane Doe stated she got up and tried to leave the room, but Hegseth blocked the door with his body. Jane Doe remembered saying, 'No,' a lot." Hegseth was not charged in this case. He denies any wrongdoing. But, Senator, you have a long history of fighting for sexual assault victims, as Missouri's attorney general. Does this incident raise concerns about his confirmation for you?
SEN. ERIC SCHMITT:
Well, I think that's why we have the confirmation process. Senators certainly are going to ask questions about it. They should. And he has a right to answer. What he's said so far is that he did no wrong, they're baseless. And it's important to note the prosecutor didn't bring any charges. It’d be interesting to see if there's any other memorandum from that prosecutor that would go along with that prosecutor's decision not to charge Pete Hegseth. But I think ultimately this is a decision that President Trump made to bring in another disruptor. And I think if you look at this election, it was disruptor versus establishment. He ran on this. And there needs to be reform in the Pentagon, whether it's procurement, whether it's getting rid of divisive DEI that's divided our military by race. It has no place in our military. I think he's talked about eliminating that. And then also making sure our focus is on our chief adversary, China.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you, I guess, big picture, senator. You're on the Armed Services Committee, and there's a known sexual assault problem in the military. Do you believe that Pete Hegseth is the right person to lead the military, given all of that, at this very moment?
SEN. ERIC SCHMITT:
Well, he's not been charged with anything, Kristen. I think that's important. And so you read from a police report. I've not seen the police report. But again, I’d like to – there's probably more documentation around this that would be interesting to see. But that’s what this confirmation –
KRISTEN WELKER:
So, I hear you saying you have questions.
SEN. ERIC SCHMITT:
Well, of course I'm going to have questions. But that police report and no charges being brought I think, again, answers itself. If there was, you know, something to be done here I'm sure the prosecutor would have pursued it. She didn't. Which speaks to that issue, I think. But ultimately, the Pentagon needs reform, and I think Pete Hegseth is a guy that President Trump trusts to go do that kind of reform. Eliminating DEI, being more innovative in our Pentagon. There's a lot of red tape. It's failed another audit. And I think also having somebody who's served on the front lines, who has the soldier's point of view on this, would be really, really important.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let's talk about the pick of Tulsi Gabbard for DNI. Here is what the former U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley had to say about Tulsi Gabbard. Take a look.
[START TAPE]
NIKKI HALEY:
This is not a place for a Russian, Iranian, Syrian, Chinese sympathizer. DNI has to analyze real threats. Are we comfortable with someone like that at the top of our national intelligence agencies?
[END STAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
So, Senator, what say you? Are you comfortable? Will you vote for Tulsi Gabbard?
SEN. ERIC SCHMITT:
I think it's really interesting that anybody that has a different political view now is being cast as a Russian asset. It's totally ridiculous. Tulsi Gabbard has served in our military. She's served as a congresswoman from Hawaii — as a Democrat, I might add, part of this unique coalition that President Trump has put together and won and got that mandate. But I think it's insulting. It's a slur, quite frankly. You know, there's no evidence that she's an asset of another country. She's served this country honorably. And, by the way, she cares deeply about our constitution and civil liberties and making sure people aren't being targeted by these intelligence agencies. So, again, I think this is a reformer who can come in, who maybe's not part of the same Washington cocktail party circuit that people in the intel community are used to, but maybe that's exactly what we need right now. President Trump listened to the American people when they screamed about these issues. They want to be heard. They feel like Washington's broken and they think bringing somebody in like Tulsi Gabbard is welcome news.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So, you're a yes on Tulsi Gabbard, Senator, just to be clear?
SEN. ERIC SCHMITT:
I'm a yes on Pam Bondi. I'm a yes on Pete Hegseth. I'm a yes on Tulsi Gabbard. Absolutely.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. Well, there you have it. Let me zoom out a little bit. The Trump transition team has so far bypassed traditional background checks for his Cabinet picks. Are you confident that all of Mr. Trump's picks will be fully and properly vetted before this confirmation process?
SEN. ERIC SCHMITT:
I am. And I think that's an important role of the United States Senate, right? It's a uniquely American institution for a bunch of reasons. We have the role of advice and consent. And as we go through, whether it's Armed Services or Judiciary, all – any of the committees that are going to be vetting these candidates for these positions, absolutely it's going to be thorough. It should be. We should ask tough questions. That's part of the process. So, I have full confidence that that's exactly what we're going to have moving forward.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Let's do a little bit of foreign policy now. We've seen the war in Ukraine, obviously, escalate this week. I wonder, do you support the U.S. staying in NATO and recommitting itself to the idea that an attack against one is an attack against all?
SEN. ERIC SCHMITT:
Yeah, I don't think anybody's talking about, not even me, exiting NATO. But I do think what President Trump has brought to the table in his first four years, and what I think he will bring, is that it's time for our European allies to step up. I think American taxpayers are tired of footing the bill all the time for the wars in Europe and, you know, specifically as it relates to Ukraine. I think they need to step up. There's been no definition of what victory looks like. There's been no definition, you know, sort of, the accountability. People have thwarted efforts to have, you know, independent audits of how the money is being spent. So, I think our European allies need to step up. We're not exiting from NATO. But I do think President Trump has an opportunity to usher in a new era of American realism, where as far as this country's concerned, our core national interests are defined by what America's needs are: protecting the homeland, pivoting to China, and making sure our European allies play a meaningful role in the defense of that continent.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, Senator, let me ask you this: Would you object, would you push back, if President-elect Trump were to say that he wanted to pull out of NATO? Do you think it's essential the U.S. stays in?
SEN. ERIC SCHMITT:
He's not talked about that at all. What he has talked about is actually them spending more money on their defense. And they started to do that. After a lot of whining initially, they started to do that. And I don't think they've met where they should go. I think that threshold should be higher than what it is right now. Again, the American taxpayers deserve a president who understands that they might be tired of subsidizing the social welfare programs in Europe. And that message is going to be delivered. It's being delivered here today. It's been delivered four years ago under President Trump. But again, these are very important relationships for us in Europe, but I do think it's time for our European allies to step up more financially and for their own defense.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Senator Schmitt, your first time being on the program. We really appreciate your being here. Thank you so much.
SEN. ERIC SCHMITT:
Any time.
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, Democratic Senator-elect Adam Schiff joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. And joining me now is Democratic Senator-elect Adam Schiff of California. Senator-elect Schiff, welcome back to Meet the Press. Congratulations on your election.
SEN.-ELECT ADAM SCHIFF:
Thank you. Great to be with you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. Great to have you here. Let's start off by talking about Matt Gaetz. You just heard me talking with Senator Schmitt about this. He's obviously no longer in contention to be attorney general, but there's still this report swirling around him. The House investigation – the House Ethics Committee has launched this investigation, details of it started to leak out this week to some members on Capitol Hill. But do you think that report should be made public?
SEN.-ELECT ADAM SCHIFF:
I do think it should be made public. I don't think that when someone decides to avoid the public accountability, they simply leave Congress and make it all go away. The taxpayers paid for that analysis and that report. I think they have a right to see it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you think it will be made public? Do you have any indication?
SEN.-ELECT ADAM SCHIFF:
I don't know. It seems like on a party-line basis Republicans are saying, "No, the public has no right to see this. And what's more, we don't want the public to see this." But it underscores to me why the president’s lack of background checks for his nominees is flawed. He may have still decided to nominate Matt Gaetz, but if they did a thorough vetting, he may have decided not to. That vetting process, having the FBI review potential nominees, is not only to protect the public interests, it's to protect the president-elect’s interests, to make sure that he's not embarrassed by nominating someone like Matt Gaetz. So, I think it shows a flaw in the process that he even got nominated, and you know, perhaps with respect to Hegseth as well. Had a thorough investigation been done, it might have influenced the president-elect's decision to nominate him in the first place.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you big picture. Obviously, President-elect Trump has now said he wants to pick Pam Bondi to serve as his attorney general. He has swept the battleground states. He won the popular vote. Republicans have control of the House and of the Senate. Do you think that the president-elect should have his picks confirmed?
SEN.-ELECT ADAM SCHIFF:
Well, I think the president has a right to nominate anyone who's qualified, who has good judgment and good character. It doesn't mean he's guaranteed Senate approval of whoever he nominates. And some of these nominees are deeply problematic. I'll be interested in the confirmation process. Will Pam Bondi continue to tell the big lie even under oath? Is she going to continue to say that the Justice Department should be prosecuting prosecutors who brought valid evidence before a grand jury, grand jury found probable cause to believe Donald Trump committed crimes? That's not a basis to go after them. So, she's going to have to answer tough questions. Tulsi Gabbard concerns me a great deal. That someone who has echoed Kremlin talking points, someone who has appeared to make common cause with someone like Bashar al-Assad who gasses his own people, someone who has no experience whatsoever, not even on the Intelligence Committee in the Congress, should be running those agencies. So, they're going to have tough questions to answer.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator-elect Schiff, is there anyone on this list who, at this very moment, you think you could vote yes on, you could support?
SEN.-ELECT ADAM SCHIFF:
Well, you know, for example I think Marco Rubio is enormously well-qualified for the job for which he's been nominated. I still want to ask questions. I'm not going to completely prejudge even him. But he's unquestionably qualified. And there are others as well. But some really stand out for the risk they would present to the American people.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So, right now, Senator Rubio would have your vote as a yes?
SEN.-ELECT ADAM SCHIFF:
Well, I'm strongly inclined that way. I don't want to prejudge completely, because you never can tell what comes out in a vetting process. But he's unquestionably qualified.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let's talk about your former colleague, who you just mentioned, Tulsi Gabbard. She's been picked as director of national intelligence. Just last week, Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz said Gabbard was, quote, "Likely a Russian asset." Do you share those concerns, or is that overstated?
SEN.-ELECT ADAM SCHIFF:
Well, I wouldn't describe her that way. But I would say this, she has certainly echoed talking points for the Kremlin. She appeared to have taken Putin's side when he invaded Ukraine. And you know, her fondness for Bashar al-Assad, someone who is gassing his own people, calls her judgment deeply into question. So, here you have someone with very questionable judgment and no experience. That's not a great recipe for running the agencies. And the problem is, if our foreign allies don't trust the head of our intelligence agencies, they'll stop sharing information with us. And that makes our country less safe. So, I have profound concerns about her.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, speaking of foreign allies and adversaries, I want to play something that President-elect Trump said about you when he was a candidate. He called you, quote, "more dangerous than foreign adversaries." Take a listen. I'll get your reaction on the other side.
[START TAPE]
PRESIDENT-ELECT DONALD TRUMP:
The enemy from within, in my opinion, is more dangerous than China, Russia, and all these countries. Because if you have a smart president he can handle them pretty easily. I handled — I got along great with all of them. I handled them. But the thing that’s tougher to handle are these lunatics that we have inside, like Adam Schiff. Adam "Shifty" Schiff.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator-elect, when you hear that language, how concerned are you that you will be targeted by President-elect Trump in his second administration?
SEN.-ELECT ADAM SCHIFF:
Well, that's dictator talk. That's how autocrats talk. They want to make their political opposition an enemy, describe them in those terms. But look, I'm not concerned about myself. I'm going to do my job. I'm not going to have his threats intimidate me from doing so. But anytime you have someone that, particularly someone who's going to become president of the United States, fawning over dictators, emulating their language, attacking the press, undermining our institutions, yeah, we should be concerned about it. Because at the end of the day, it means that the American people will suffer. The American people, I think, voted on the basis of the economy. They wanted change to the economy. They weren't voting for dictatorship. So, I think he is going to misread his mandate if that's what he thinks voters chose him for.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you, because there is an effort underway to dismiss both the federal and the state cases that President-elect Trump is facing. Do you believe that that is appropriate? Again, now that he has won office, now that he is going to be in the White House again, the Supreme Court has obviously said that he has immunity for all official acts once he's in office. Do you think these cases should be dismissed?
SEN.-ELECT ADAM SCHIFF:
I don't. I think the sentencing and further proceedings in the New York case should be deferred until after he leaves office. And likewise, I think further proceedings in the two federal cases should be deferred until he leaves office. But they should not be dismissed. A jury of Donald Trump's peers found him guilty. He's no less guilty because he won an election. There were two grand juries who found probable cause to believe Donald Trump committed federal crimes. Those cases shouldn't go out of – go away simply because he was elected. The presidency is not a get-out-of-jail-free card. Instead, they should postpone further proceedings until after he leaves office.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. I want to turn now to the results of the 2024 election and talk a little bit about what you think may have gone wrong. You joined this program a month before the election and you talked about Vice President Harris's chances of winning. Take a look at this.
[BEGIN TAPE]
SEN.-ELECT ADAM SCHIFF:
By the standards of today, I think she can win overwhelmingly. You know, given how divided the country is, overwhelming may be winning by 100,000 votes or 80,000 votes in these key battleground states. I think that's within her capacity to do. So I think we are well-poised to win this thing. But it is still scary close.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Why do you think that Kamala Harris didn't win, and win overwhelmingly?
SEN.-ELECT ADAM SCHIFF:
Well, I think Joe Biden's decision to step aside and pass the torch was the right decision. It gave us a chance to win. It didn't give us a guarantee. And I thought she could win. And I thought she could win in all the battleground states. But ultimately, what we saw both in this country and around the world was a very strong anti-incumbent wave that took out both progressives and conservatives. And our party became associated with the status quo, and that was too much to overcome. I think the principle issue is the economy. And over years and even decades, it's gotten more and more difficult for people working full time to make a living. And until we resolve that challenge to the economy, we may find the presidency is easier to get than it is to keep.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You know, you talk about President Biden's role in all of this. Speaker Emerita Pelosi said that he actually should have stepped aside sooner. That that could have made a significant difference in the outcome of this election. Do you agree with the speaker emerita?
SEN.-ELECT ADAM SCHIFF:
Well, she has far better political instincts than I do. You know, I think it's difficult, because had we gone to a competitive primary, for example, what would the results of that primary have been? How ugly and divisive and chaotic would it have been? Very hard to tell in advance. But I do think the, you know, Democratic Party has to recognize the challenge we have. Which is for too many millions of battleground voters, working people, they don't think we represent them. And we have to make that case anew.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But, Senator-elect, do you believe that President Biden bears some responsibility for staying in too long?
SEN.-ELECT ADAM SCHIFF:
Look, I think the entire Democratic Party bears responsibility, myself included. And the former president mounted an effective campaign, and you have to give him credit for that. But the challenge that we have is, we need to put forward a bold vision for how we're going to move the economy forward, make the economy work for every American. To me the existential question is, if you're working hard in America, can you still earn a good living? And too many people doubt that that's possible.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Before I let you go, I do want to ask you about what happened on Capitol Hill this week. Congresswoman Nancy Mace introduced legislation to restrict transgender people from using bathrooms that align with their gender identity. Mace said the move was in response to Congresswoman-elect Sarah McBride, who's of course set to become the first openly transgender member of Congress. McBride has called this an effort to just distract from the real issues. But Johnson has actually been supportive of Nancy Mace. Where do you come down? How do you see this?
SEN.-ELECT ADAM SCHIFF:
I think it is a distraction. We have bigger challenges ahead of us, including the most immediate, which is we don't want the government to shut down, we don't want to default on our debt. We should be focused on those problems.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Senator-elect Adam Schiff, thank you so much for being here in person. Really appreciate it. Good to see you. And when we come back, President-elect Trump experienced his first setback this week, as he moves quickly to pick his Cabinet. Will Mr. Trump's other picks face more opposition? We'll delve into that. The panel's next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is here: NBC News Senior White House correspondent Kelly O'Donnell; former Secretary of Homeland Security, Jeh Johnson; Anna Palmer, founder of Punchbowl News; and Stephen Hayes, editor of The Dispatch. Thank you all so much for being here. Kelly O'Donnell, let me start with you. Huge week in terms of President-elect Trump's picks. And the big news of course that Matt Gaetz withdrew his name for consideration to be attorney general because you had five Republican senators saying they were going to vote no. Do you think this is a one-off? In other words, do you think it's a sign of opposition potentially for Senate Republicans? Or is this just something that happened with Matt Gaetz?
KELLY O’DONNELL:
Well, I think what the president-elect did, and he may not have intended it, is he created a stress test on the system of the constitutional power of advise and consent. And by doing that, the shock and the jolt of a Gaetz nomination put Republican senators in particular in a difficult place. They don't want to deny and defy Donald Trump's picks. And so the real question: Is this the outlier or has he set up conditions now where everyone else looks favorable by comparison? And that's what I – I think we don't know. And the Republicans did a quiet mission against Gaetz. And that was important in the context of trying to remain loyal.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Anna, it's such a great point because publicly every Republican said, "Look, we might have criticisms of Matt Gaetz, but we're not closing the door to him." No one said no publicly. How do you see this playing out? What are your sources telling you on Capitol Hill?
ANNA PALMER:
This is the tightrope that Senate Republicans face and that they're walking when it comes to all of these nominations, in particular some of the more controversial ones. Because there's a lot of concern. You talk to members of Congress and their staff behind the scenes. And if they're being honest, there's a lot of nervousness around Pete Hegseth, around Tulsi Gabbard, some of the others. But they don't want to get crossed by – they don't want to get into a Twitter war with Donald Trump because they know they're going to lose.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. Secretary Johnson, you are familiar with these confirmation processes.
JEH JOHNSON:
Intimately.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yes, well, take us inside based on your intimate knowledge. What do you make of what we've witnessed so far?
JEH JOHNSON:
Well, on the Senate, I – I didn't exactly see a whole lot of profiles in courage. Matt Gaetz was a wild pitch even with Donald Trump's strike zone. He was -- you cannot nominate credibly someone to be the head of the Justice Department who was just recently a subject of a Justice Department investigation. And so no one said outright, out of the box, “He's not qualified." I've heard Lindsey Graham and others say that the president's entitled to his nominees. That's simply not true. The Senate has a constitutional obligation to advise and consent. I've been through the process three times. Two of them I was nominated by a Democratic president, confirmed by a Democratic senate. And it was not a free pass, I can tell you that. I had to, in the background investigation, go back to the address of the Sears and Roebuck where I worked when I was a college student and go through every single foreign trip I'd ever taken since I was age 18. So it’s – the – the Senate has a job to do in this process.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It really is instructive to hear, Steve, the secretary talk about his own experience because you think about some of these picks now, particularly of Pete Hegseth. And in my conversation with Senator Schmitt, he basically acknowledged, "Yeah, he has some real questions for him." Who do you think, of these remaining Cabinet picks now that they've all been filled out, who do you think is going to be the toughest to be confirmed at this point?
STEPHEN HAYES:
Yeah, I think what you're seeing is Republican senators making the distinction between unconventional on the one hand and unqualified on the other. They can vote for unconventional picks. Most of the picks are going to be unconventional in some way. What I think they don't want to do is support unqualified candidates. And I guess I have a different view of this than the – than the secretary. If you look at this first week, I would say Republican senators sort of got their back up and said, "We're not going to do this." I think Kelly's right that there was a quiet effort to have Matt Gaetz removed. Senator Lindsey Graham, who has shown great deference in the past, I think, had a stern discussion with Matt Gaetz, sort of laid out what the – the likely scenarios would be if he proceeded with the nomination, suggested there wouldn't have been votes. Other senators back channeled with the administration, the incoming administration about that. Then I think also you heard Eric Schmitt, Senator Schmitt today on – on your interview suggest that background checks would be important, whether they're FBI background checks or others, would be important. And then third, you've seen Republican senators show skepticism publicly about this recess appointment process. So I think thus far, early on, Republican senators are saying, "We want to be supportive of the president's picks. But there's a line here."
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. You're absolutely right in the recess appointments because last week we were talking about recess appointments, as if, "Wow, that's a real possibility." They sent a message this week that they're not necessarily yielding their advice and consent. Kelly, boy, President-elect Trump is rolling out these picks with incredible speed. He's now basically filled all of the positions in his Cabinet including Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, former hedge fund CEO. What do you make of the pace of this and the fact that you do have some senators saying, "Look, we want to start the confirmation process before the inauguration"?
KELLY O’DONNELL:
Which they can do once the new Congress is – is taken into office. This is a faster pace than Trump.1. It is also one where as– as the president-elect talked about this being a nice transition, he has not fully engaged in the transition. He has not signed the paperwork that allows him to work with the sitting administration for really important things. Not only is it access to office space and financial support to run the transition, but as we mentioned, the FBI background checks. That's a tool that could be used by the president-elect, but he's so wary that he is not affording himself some of the things that government allows to make a new administration successful. And that's an interesting choice that he likes to break the china. But sometimes there are tools available to him. And he doesn't want to use them. They haven't yet.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Secretary Johnson, how significant is it that he's not using these tools? How significant is an FBI background check —
JEH JOHNSON:
Very.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– for example?
JEH JOHNSON:
Reports are that his vetting team did not know about this settlement of this sexual assault allegation which an FBI agent would have found in – in ten minutes. And so I think one of the reasons we're seeing these Cabinet nominees out rapid fire is because they're not doing the proper vetting of these people.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. Anna, I mean, do you think that Republicans are concerned about that very fact that the I's aren't being dotted, the T's aren't being crossed? And do you think they will be with some of these newer picks that we learned about overnight, like Scott Bessent?
ANNA PALMER:
Yes. It's – it’s a "flood the zone" approach, right? This is what Donald Trump is doing. I think Matt Gaetz for the first couple of weeks took all the oxygen out of the room. Everyone was focused there. And now there is this kind of drum beat of meetings by all these Cabinet nominees. There's going to be vetting. These committees and the senators themselves take it seriously. Even those that are very supportive and will likely back all of Trump's nominees, they're still going to be going to through that process. And people are going to, you know, have questions that need to be answered.
STEPHEN HAYES:
And we should say, we should say also – to the secretary's point earlier – you know, low-level incoming intel analysts go through deep background checks. I mean, I've had some who used to work for me at The Weekly Standard. I've spent 45 minutes on a call with somebody answering questions about their financial situation, whether they've had contacts with foreigners, particularly foreigners who come from adversarial countries. These are questions that these nominees should have to answer. And we should get the – the – the – the public should see their answers to these questions.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, fascinating to hear your inside takes because you all have been involved in it. So thank you very much for that. Stick around. We have a lot more to discuss. When we come back, the House Ethics Committee was in the spotlight this week. The Ethics Committee made history back in 1997 when it actually punished the Speaker of the House. Our Meet the Press Minute is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The House Ethics Committee couldn't agree to release its report on its investigation of Matt Gaetz, but the controversy prompted Gaetz to abruptly withdraw his name for attorney general. Back in 1997, Newt Gingrich was the first House speaker ever to be punished for ethics violations for using a tax exempt organization for political purposes, and then providing inaccurate information to the committee. In a Meet the Press interview almost a decade later, Gingrich downplayed the official sanction.
[BEGIN TAPE]
NEWT GINGRICH:
On every ethics charge, in the end, I was exonerated. The one thing that happened is I signed a letter written by one of our lawyers that was technically wrong, and I paid the cost of investigating that letter. The Democrats were very mad after the '94 election. They had lost power for the first time in 40 years. They knew it couldn't be their fault, so it must be mine. But if you went back and you took – if you were to someday take item by item what the charges were and what the results were, again and again and again they turned out to be false. Now, I've had a very long career, and there's lots of things people will be able to pick out from votes, to attacking my life, to attacking the ethics stuff. What people have to decide at some point down the road, first of all, is are the ideas good?
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And a quick note, former Speaker Gingrich was not exonerated since the committee does not render a legal verdict. When we come back, the day-one agenda. What will Donald Trump's first moves be when he returns to the White House? More with the panel next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back, the panel is still here. Let's talk about the Day One agenda. Kelly, we have new reporting that President-elect Trump, once he's sworn into office, on Day One, plans to roll out a series of executive actions, as one person is saying, quote, "Like nothing you've ever seen before." What are you hearing?
KELLY O'DONNELL:
That sounds like Trump himself, doesn't it?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yes. Exactly.
KELLY O'DONNELL:
I think that you could argue that that first 24 hours will be the best day of either Trump term in the experience of Donald Trump because it will be the peak of his political comeback. And it's where his skill set for marketing and branding comes into play, where he can talk about his campaign promises with the presidential pen to sign – something he likes to do, the visual demonstration – and to outline these initial steps. We believe there will be several that relate to immigration and his mass deportation plan. Expect him in the economic realm to talk about tariffs. Expect him to do things that relate to the Department of Defense to unwind some of what Joe Biden did with respect to service members being able to, for example, cross state lines for reproductive health care. There will be a flurry of them, and they will all be big, bright stamps of what he ran on.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Secretary Johnson, pick up on that point because, as Kelly notes, immigration is really the centerpiece, and he has this mass deportation plan. He's going to sign some executive actions, but he's also going to then begin to roll out this plan. I interviewed him a couple of weeks ago after he was elected. I said, "Do you have an actual plan? How much is it going to cost?" He said, "There's no price tag." You, obviously, again, have intimate knowledge with what happens at the border. How complicated would it be to actually roll out this type of plan?
JEH JOHNSON:
So, first of all, somebody should pass a law banning executive orders on Day One, because the reality is executive orders drafted by transition teams without the input of the affected agency before the Cabinet secretary is even confirmed are not great ideas. The travel ban, for example, eight years ago. Let's go back to that. I'll even point fingers at myself. I was involved in the transition 16 years ago and Guantanamo Bay is still open. So, to this idea of mass deportation, that would be the equivalent if you tried to deport everyone in this country who is undocumented, of the population of two New York Cities, which could not happen in my lifetime. An administration, whether it's Trump or Biden or Obama, has to have enforcement priorities. Start with the criminals, start with the national security threats, recent border crossers. Tom Homan knows that. I know he knows that because he used to work for me. And I'd rather see ERO go after the criminals versus somebody who's been in this country 12 years, committed no crimes, has children who are U.S. citizens. And that's the reality of enforcement and that’s – I'm sure that will be the reality of enforcement even under a President Trump.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Anna, how do you see the Hill reacting to this, first the flurry of executive actions, but look, if he is going to even attempt to try this mass deportation plan, he's going to need more funds from Congress.
ANNA PALMER:
Yeah, I think everybody's expecting the executive orders right away to go as fast as absolutely possible. I think on this idea of where the money is, the power of the purse in Congress holds that very tight. I also think he's going to face some skepticism by Republicans on using the military, for instance, going kind of into different states. I think that is going to be something you've already heard Rand Paul and others, the libertarian side of the party say, "Hold up, like, we have some questions here."
KRISTEN WELKER:
And Steve, obviously, Republicans have control of the House, but boy, it's a very narrow margin which could make everything that we are talking about on his agenda a little bit tougher.
STEPHEN HAYES:
It could make it somewhat tenuous, but I think that argues in favor of Donald Trump being aggressive on executive actions. He said he ran on tariffs. He ran on mass deportations. We know that these are issues that he cares about viscerally in a way that he doesn't care about some other issues viscerally. I expect him to go as far as he possibly can in those two areas.
KRISTEN WELKER:
What about Jeh's point about Guantanamo Bay? It was the – you know, supposed to get done on Day One and it's still open.
STEPHEN HAYES:
Well, I'm glad that they failed, actually. Look, I think there's a risk in overstating things, but let's just say that Donald Trump is not usually restrained by overstating things. He likes to overstate things. This is what he does.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Secretary Johnson?
JEH JOHNSON:
There's a larger point about these Cabinet picks. This president, this time around, seems to want pass-throughs. When I was general counsel of DOD, the secretary was Bob Gates, Leon Panetta, who brought a lifetime of wisdom and experience that is value added to any president. Presidents need to hear things they don't want to hear from their Cabinet and I'm worried that these nominees will not be able to be in a position to do that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, Kelly, so thinking about the system of potential checks, you go back to the Senate and someone like a current Leader McConnell who is not going to be the leader once the new Congress is sworn in.
KELLY O'DONNELL:
He is untethered by the constraints of being in leadership, where you have to set the tone for the entire Republican Conference. And he's one of the most, I think, skillful tacticians of Senate rules. So, he has weight and relationships. He will be an appropriator for Defense, and that will be a very important part of his role in trying to get his own sense of what needs to happen. And he will talk in ways to other members that could be some conflict with Donald Trump from time to time. Certainly, he had the opportunity when he was in leadership to take a more dramatic position against Donald Trump. They had no relationship for a number of years. They're back in a cooperative spirit. But he'll be someone to watch because he knows – the president-elect may not know the rules of the Senate very carefully or care about them, but Mitch McConnell does.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, I mean, Anna, to that point, he certainly is someone to watch and you put him up as one of the five senators who was planning to vote no on Matt Gaetz. What are you going to be watching for as it relates to the current Leader Mitch McConnell?
ANNA PALMER:
Mitch McConnell's a man of few words, but when he speaks you should listen. And I think what his colleagues do behind the scenes as well, I think that he has no fear of Donald Trump. If he thinks that the president – the future president is doing things that are not appropriate, he will make his position known.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you think that that's going to be really the only check? I mean here, you know, again, Republicans have control, very narrow control of the House, control of the Senate, the Supreme Court, conservative-leaning right now. Stephen, do you think that those Republican senators are going to really be the only check on his power?
STEPHEN HAYES:
I mean, they're the most obvious institutional check. But like I said earlier, I think they do want to get to yes on a lot of these nominations and on most of Trump's policy priorities. Mitch McConnell also has a very strong relationship with John Thune, incoming Senate majority leader. When I profiled John Thune 15 years ago, Mitch McConnell, before there was a presidential primary and Thune was thinking about running, volunteered an endorsement early. So he's fond of John Thune. They get along very well.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, he is going to be one to watch, certainly, as well. All right, well, thank you all so much. Hope you all have a very happy Thanksgiving. That is all for today. Thank you for watching. Have a very happy Thanksgiving to all of you. We will be back next week, because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.