KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: Heated debate.
VICE PRES. KAMALA HARRIS:
The American people are exhausted with the same old tired playbook.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
They’ve destroyed the fabric of our country. Millions of people let in.
KRISTEN WELKER:
In their first face off on the debate stage, Vice President Kamala Harris puts former President Donald Trump on the defensive.
VICE PRES. KAMALA HARRIS:
Donald Trump actually has no plan for you because he is more interested in defending himself than he is in looking out for you.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
She’s going to do all these wonderful things. Why hasn’t she done it? She’s been there for three and a half years.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Will the debate change the minds of undecided voters? Steve Kornacki takes us inside the key battlegrounds. Plus: Doubling down. The debate over immigration takes a disturbing turn over Donald Trump’s unfounded claims that Haitian immigrants in Springfield, Ohio are abusing animals.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
They’re eating dogs. The people that came in. They’re eating cats.
IAN SAMS:
It's a right-wing conspiracy theory.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And: Swift voting.
TAYLOR SWIFT:
Please register to vote for something else that's very important coming up.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Taylor Swift uses her voice to back Kamala Harris in a surprise endorsement. How powerful is her seal of approval? My guests this morning: Republican vice presidential nominee JD Vance and former Democratic presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg. Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Senior Washington correspondent Hallie Jackson; Jonathan Martin of Politico; Symone Sanders-Townsend, former chief spokeswoman for Vice President Kamala Harris; and Marc Short, former chief of staff to Vice President Mike Pence. Welcome to Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. We are now just 51 days away from election day. And after the first debate this past week, the race is still incredibly close. Former President Trump's allies want him to spend these critical final days talking about the issues on voters' minds: the economy, health care, immigration, and focusing on the Vice President's vulnerabilities. Instead, Mr. Trump spent most of the week falsely claiming that migrants are eating pets in a small town in Ohio and defending his association with a far-right agitator who other Republicans have condemned. On Tuesday night, former President Trump and Vice President Harris faced off for what may have been the most important 90 minutes of the campaign.
VICE PRES. KAMALA HARRIS:
Donald Trump was fired by 81 million people. Clearly he is having a very difficult time processing that.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
I've never seen a worse period of time. People can't go out and buy cereal or bacon or eggs or anything else.
VICE PRES. KAMALA HARRIS:
During the course of his rallies, he talks about fictional characters like Hannibal Lecter. He will talk about windmills cause cancer. And I will tell you the one thing you will not hear him talk about is you.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
We have the biggest rallies, the most incredible rallies in the history of politics.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Now, former President Trump doubled down on baseless claims he made on the debate stage that members of the Haitian population in Springfield, Ohio, are abusing pets. City officials say there is just no evidence of that.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
In Springfield, they're eating the dogs. The people that came in, they're eating the cats. They're eating – they're eating the pets of the people that live there. They're taking the geese, you know, where the geese are in the park, in the lake, and even walking off with their pets. My dog's been taken.
KRISTEN WELKER:
This morning Springfield is on edge after days of bomb threats that closed public schools, government buildings, and hospitals. Former President Trump also defended his association with far-right activist Laura Loomer, who traveled with him as he made multiple stops on Wednesday to mark the 23rd anniversary of the September 11th attacks. Just last year Loomer posted a video on social media that called the 9/11 attacks an inside job. This week she posted a racist tweet about Vice President Harris. Some Republicans are condemning her. North Carolina Senator Thom Tillis writing, quote, "Laura Loomer is a crazy conspiracy theorist who regularly utters disgusting garbage intended to divide Republicans." Trump allies tell NBC News that there are real concerns about Loomer and Trump's relationship and worry Loomer could cost him votes in key battleground states. During a news conference on Friday, Mr. Trump downplayed his connection to Loomer but did not disavow her statements.
VAUGHN HILLYARD:
What value do you feel that Laura Loomer brings to you and has nobody told you about the conspiracy theories that she has promoted?
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
No, I don't know that much about it. No, I don't. I know she's a big fan of the campaign. But I – I really don't know.
VAUGHN HILLYARD:
What does she bring to you?
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
I would say that, well, she brings a spirit to us that a lot of people have. We have very spirited people.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Later he posted on social media, "Laura Loomer doesn't work for the campaign. She's a private citizen and long-time supporter. I disagree with the statement she made but like the many millions of people who support me, she is tired of watching the radical left Marxists and fascists violently attack and smear me." For more on where this race stands with just over seven weeks until Election Day, I'm joined now by National Political Correspondent Steve Kornacki. Steve, what does it look like post-debate?
STEVE KORNACKI:
Yeah, Kristen. Well, it looks a lot like it did pre-debate. But let's take you through what are we looking at here. First of all, this is the national poll average here of Harris ahead by two points. The NBC News average of the major national polls over the last two weeks, and that means just about half of the polls that are in this average have now been conducted after that debate. And you see Harris with a two-point lead nationally. Of course, one of the things we've talked about is in the last two elections when Donald Trump ran – 2016 and 2020 – he was able to – he lost the popular vote in both of those elections but almost won the Electoral College in 2020 and did win the Electoral College in 2016. And here are the states we think will determine the Electoral College, the seven core battleground states. Again the NBC News poll average here, they are very, very close. You could see that Harris with slight advantages in some of these. Trump in Georgia and Arizona. North Carolina tied. Would also flag for you: You remember in 2016 and 2020 one of the stories of the election. Polls were off. And they were off in specific places. Two of the states that missed the biggest in polling in the last election were Michigan and Wisconsin. And notice those are the states right now where Harris has her strongest advantages in the polling. In 2020 and in 2016 in those states, Trump voters, blue-collar Trump voters, were underestimated in the polls. It's a question. Has that been fixed? Or is that something that might happen again? Let's take a look though at the road to 270. Now here's a big if. And I stress it's an "if." But this is just to show you. If we took this, the states that are Harris blue right now in the average, the Trump red, North Carolina tied, and we plugged it in to the 270 map, you see that would have Harris at 276, Trump 246. 270 obviously needed to win. But again, extremely close there. And from Trump's standpoint, even looking at this, here's the path for him. It's the simplest path if he's going to win this presidential election. Right now, again with that small lead in the poll average in Georgia, North Carolina tied. And remember Trump did carry North Carolina in 2016 and 2020. So let's say Trump were able – just sake of an "if" here – but if Trump were to get North Carolina then, he would need one of Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, three states he carried in 2016 that he lost to Joe Biden in 2020. But you'll see right here, just with Georgia and Carolina, if he wins Pennsylvania, he's got what he needs. If he wins Michigan, he's got what he needs. If he wins Wisconsin, he's got what he needs. So bottom line, the Trump path, pretty simple there. The Harris path, protect those three. We'll see what happens, Kristen, going forward.
KRISTEN WELKER:
A fight to the finish. Steve Kornacki, thank you so much.
STEVE KORNACKI:
You got it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And joining me now is former President Trump's running mate, Republican Senator JD Vance of Ohio. Senator Vance, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. JD VANCE:
Good morning, Kristen. Thanks for having me.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, thanks so much for being here. I want to start with the topic of abortion. The issue of a federal of abortion ban came up in the debate this week, including the comments that you made here on this program last month. Take a look.
[START TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
If such a piece of legislation landed on Donald Trump's desk, would he veto it?
SEN. JD VANCE:
Oh, I think it would be very clear he would not support it. I mean, he's said that in –
KRISTEN WELKER:
But would he veto it?
SEN. JD VANCE:
Yes, I mean, if you're not supporting it as the President of the United States, you fundamentally have to veto it --
KRISTEN WELKER:
– So he would veto a federal abortion ban?
SEN. JD VANCE:
I think he would. He said that explicitly that he would.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And then Senator, here's what Donald Trump said on the debate stage.
[START TAPE]
LINSEY DAVIS:
Would you veto a national abortion ban if it came to your desk?
FMR. PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP:
Well, I won't have to.
LINSEY DAVIS:
But if I could just get a yes or no, because your running mate JD Vance has said that you would veto it if it did come to your desk.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
Well, I didn't discuss it with J.D., in all fairness. And I don't mind if he has a certain view, but I think he was speaking for me. But I really didn't.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator Vance, just to clarify once and for all, if Donald Trump were to be elected, if a federal abortion ban were to land on his desk, would he veto it?
SEN. JD VANCE:
Well, Kristen, as you saw the President say we hadn't discussed it. We still haven't discussed it, by the way, because it's not realistic, Kristen. I think that was the point that he made during the debate is he's been incredibly clear that he doesn't support a national abortion ban. He wants abortion policy to be made by the states because he thinks, look, Alabama's going to make a different decision from California, and that's okay. We're a big country. We can disagree. The best way to actually facilitate us coming together despite that disagreement is by allowing each individual state to make their own abortion policy. So I think President Trump has been clear, a national abortion ban is not on the table. He wouldn't support it. He wouldn't sign it. And I think frankly, Kristen, it's kind of a ridiculous hypothetical. Because if a national abortion ban was brought before the United States Senate right now, it would get at best ten senators out of 100. So I think we should talk about issues that actually might come before the president, like our approach to lowering energy prices, to lowering grocery prices, to making housing more affordable, which all have gone in the wrong direction under Kamala Harris' policies. His point is that it was a hypothetical, and not a hypothetical that has any chance of actually crossing his desk.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I take your point. But just to put a fine point on this, you're saying he wouldn't support it. So would he veto it?
SEN. JD VANCE:
Kristen, I think that I've learned my lesson on speaking for the president before he and I have actually talked about an issue. What he has said at the debate, which is quite explicit, is he doesn't support a national ban. He thinks it's ridiculous to talk about vetoing a piece of legislation that isn't going to come before the president in the first place.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, let's zoom out a little bit, Senator, and talk more broadly about the issue of health care. Former President Trump said on the debate stage he had, quote, "concepts of a plan" to replace the Affordable Care Act. Here is what he has said, though, in the past. Look.
[START TAPE]
FMR. PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP:
We're going to have a health care plan that's going to be second to none. We have two plans coming out. We already have the concept of the plan. We'll be announcing that in about two months, maybe less.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, can you clarify, what is Donald Trump's health care plan?
SEN. JD VANCE:
Well, first of all, Kristen, let's back up a little bit to 2017, 2018 when Obamacare was actually collapsing under the weight of the regulatory burdens, and collapsing under the weight of lack of funding. And Donald Trump had two choices. He could've destroyed the program, or he could actually build upon it and make it better so that Americans didn't lose a lot of health care. He chose to build upon a plan even though it came from his Democratic predecessor. And I think it illustrates Donald Trump's entire approach to governing, which is to fix problems, even if he may have disagreed with the original legislation, to fix the American people's problems, not just to blow things up because it happened to be implemented by your predecessor. And frankly, I wish Kamala Harris would take a similar approach on things like the Abraham Accords, which she has not built upon at all despite the fact that it's built a lot of peace in the region, and could build more. But what President Trump's health care plan is, is actually quite straightforward, is you want to make sure that preexisting coverage – conditions are covered, you want to make sure that people have access to the doctors that they need, and you also want to implement some deregulatory agenda so that people can choose a health care plan that fits them. Think about it: a young American doesn't have the same health care needs as a 65-year-old American. A 65-year-old American in good health has much different health care needs than a 65-year-old American with a chronic condition. And we want to make sure everybody is covered. But the best way to do that is to actually promote some more choice in our health care system and not have a one-size-fits-all approach that puts a lot of people into the same insurance pools, into the same risk pools, that actually makes it harder for people to make the right choices for their families.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, you mention Obamacare. Twenty million people are currently getting their health care through Obamacare. I guess the question is, and you're laying out some benchmarks here, but why should voters believe that a plan is forthcoming when you've heard Donald Trump say so many times in the past that he's going to be putting forward a plan, that still hasn't happened yet?
SEN. JD VANCE:
Well, because Donald Trump actually governed, Kristen, for four years, and he actually protected those 20 million Americans from losing their health coverage. He actually protected a lot more additional Americans from losing their health coverage. And he actually ensured that a lot of people were able to access coverage for the first time. I mean, members of my own family, for example, got health care for the first time under Donald Trump's administration. So we actually have a real record to run on. He of course does have a plan for how to fix American health care, but a lot of it goes down, Kristen, to deregulating the insurance market so that people can choose a plan that actually makes sense for them –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Alright –
SEN. JD VANCE:
We have to, on the one hand, fix the problems of Obamacare, while on the other hand, Kristen, making sure that people continue to have good choices.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. So what I hear you're saying is Obamacare stays in place. Let me move to another topic. There was a lot of attention, as you know, this week on former President Trump's baseless claims about migrants eating pets in Springfield, Ohio, claims you first shared online, Senator, earlier this week. Local authorities now say there have been no credible reports of migrants hurting pets or animals. And in fact, neo-Nazis are now taking credit, frankly, for pushing these rumors mainstream. Why are you continuing to double and triple down on these baseless claims?
SEN. JD VANCE:
Well, two important points here, Kristen. First of all, I have heard firsthand from multiple constituents, people who've made 911 calls a month ago, a year ago, who are making these complaints. I trust my constituents more than I do the American media that has shown no interest in what's happened in Springfield until we started sharing cat memes on the internet, which is disgraceful that the American media ignored this town. And that's the most important part. Kamala Harris' open border, Kristen, has led to skyrocketing housing costs in Springfield, rising rates of crime, rising rates of communicable diseases. They have dropped 20,000 immigrants into a town of 40,000, and it's caused a host of social problems. And we should be talking about why Kamala Harris has done this to this small town, and the media and the Democrats ignored it for an entire year. Kristen, I was talking about this on the Senate Banking Committee months ago. Nobody would pay attention to it until we started sharing the 911 calls of people in Springfield saying the migrants are eating the geese.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And yet –
SEN. JD VANCE:
I think that's really, really shameful, that no one cared about it or paid attention to it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And yet, Senator, officials, the mayor, other local officials have said there's just no evidence of what you're saying, that it's baseless, those claims. Can't you just make your argument about immigration without making those claims, Senator? Why not just make an argument about immigration? Why do you have to delve into repeating these baseless claims that, again Senator, have been repeated by neo-Nazis?
SEN. JD VANCE:
Kristen, I hear you saying that they're baseless, but I'm not repeating them because I invented them out of thin air. I'm repeating them because my constituents are saying these things are happening. I mean, just yesterday --
KRISTEN WELKER:
But there's no evidence –
SEN. JD VANCE:
– a video came out of a migrant 30 miles away eating a cat. Clearly these rumors are out there because constituents are seeing it with their own eyes, and some of them are talking about it. Now, look, we also have to talk about, and should primarily talk about the effects that this has had on car insurance rates, on disease rates. Those are the things that I'm spending 95% of my time talking about, Kristen. But again, the media didn't care about this story until we started sharing the 911 call about the geese.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator –
SEN. JD VANCE:
That is an indictment of the American media. But the real problem here, Kristen -- let me just finish this point -- is Kamala Harris opened the border with no plan for how to assimilate 20,000 people. It's made the community worse off –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator –
SEN. JD VANCE:
That's what we should be focused on.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, I have to say, though, that the mayor from Dayton in that video that you're talking about, and police chief, responded forcefully to that new video you just referenced. They say there's absolutely no evidence to even remotely suggest that immigrants are eating pets. Let me just ask you, though, in October of 2016 you said this, quote: "Trump makes people I care about afraid: immigrants, Muslims, et cetera. Because of this I find him reprehensible. God wants better of us." This week in Springfield buildings were closed because of bomb threats, Haitian immigrants say they are afraid for their lives. Are you now doing the very thing you once called reprehensible, Senator?
SEN. JD VANCE:
Well, first of all, Kristen, we condemn all acts of violence and all threats of violence. But Kristen, the reason that I changed my mind on Donald Trump is actually perfectly highlighted by what's going on in Springfield. Because the media and the Kamala Harris campaign, they've been calling the residents of Springfield racist, they've been lying about them. They've been saying that they make up these reports of migrants eating geese, and they completely ignore the public health disaster that is unfolding in Springfield at this very minute. You know who hasn't ignored it? Donald Trump --
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, what about the Haitian immigrants who say they're afraid --
SEN. JD VANCE:
Because Donald Trump believes – let me finish this point, Kristen, and feel free to follow up – Donald Trump is the only person who brought Springfield to national attention, and is the only President who's going to fight for the residents, not just their right to live safely in their communities, but for their right to complain about what's going on in their own community. I think it's disgraceful that Kamala Harris has heard these complaints, has decided to call people racist instead of actually trying to make their lives better by undoing her open border. But I know you had a question.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, and, Senator, again, because we're almost out of time, but Haitian immigrants are saying they're afraid for their lives. I want to shift to another topic. I've been talking to allies of former President Trump who are, frankly, outraged, they're alarmed that Donald Trump has been traveling with Laura Loomer. She is someone who says she supports white nationalism. She's spread conspiracy theories, including that the September 11th attacks are an inside job. She recently said that Kamala Harris, whose mother was Indian, if she wins in November, quote, "The White House will smell like curry." Senator, you are married to an Indian-American woman. What was your reaction to hearing those comments specifically?
SEN. JD VANCE:
Well, Kristen, I want to go back to what you said about Haitian migrants to begin with because you didn't give me a chance to respond. Look, we don't blame the Haitian migrants for coming to Springfield. We blame Kamala Harris for opening the American southern border and inviting 20,000 people to get dropped in a small Ohio town. Now, you asked about Laura Loomer. Look, Laura Loomer is not affiliated with the Trump campaign. She said something about curry in the White House that I first read about this morning actually, because I knew that you would ask me about it. Look, Kristen, I make a mean chicken curry. I don't think that it's insulting for anybody to talk about their dietary preferences or what they want to do in the White House. I think what Laura said about Kamala Harris is not what we should be focused on. We should be focused on the policy and on the issues. And look, so yeah, do I agree with what Laura Loomer said about Kamala Harris? No, I don't. I also don't think that this is actually an issue of national import. Is Laura Loomer running for president? No, Kamala Harris is running for president. And whether you're eating curry at your dinner table or fried chicken, things have gotten more expensive thanks to her policies. Let's talk about the person running for president of the United States, not a social media personality who supports Donald Trump.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, were you and your wife offended, and do you disavow those comments that even some Trump allies say are blatantly racist?
SEN. JD VANCE:
Kristen, I just told you, I don't like those comments. And I think we ought to focus on Kamala Harris' policy failures. I also don't look at the internet for every single thing to get offended by. I'm running for vice president because I think Kamala Harris has been a disaster, and we have to undo her policies. That's what we should be focused on. But by the way, when I say, "we," I mean the American media. Kamala Harris opened the border, she made food unaffordable. We should be talking about her failure as an American leader, not a social media personality who supports Donald Trump.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, Senator JD Vance, thank you so much for your time this morning. Really appreciate it.
SEN. JD VANCE:
Thanks, Kristen. See you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, former Democratic presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. And joining me now, it's former Democratic presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg. Mr. Buttigieg, welcome back to Meet the Press.
PETE BUTTIGIEG:
Good morning. Good to be with you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, it is great to have you here. Let's start where I left off, in part, with Senator Vance. We were talking about the situation in Springfield, Ohio. He has blamed the Biden-Harris Administration and its policies for the fact that there has been an influx of Haitian migrants. It's the result of a policy called Temporary Protective Status, which allowed hundreds of thousands of Haitian migrants, who have been fleeing poverty and violence, to potentially seek shelter here. The Springfield, Ohio, mayor told NBC that immigrants have put a strain on resources. How do you respond to those officials in Springfield and other cities who are, quite frankly, concerned about a strain on resources?
PETE BUTTIGIEG:
Yeah. A community like Springfield, Ohio, is dealing with rapid economic growth and rapid population growth, some of it connected to immigration. And the mayor there, just as I was dealing with challenges when I was mayor in South Bend, Indiana, is focused on how to bring a community together, move it forward, and help it grow. What is not going to help that mayor, what is not going to help that community, is the kind of chaos inflicted on them by a national campaign deciding to make them a lightning rod over wild rumors and urban legends about people eating cats, or dogs, or geese, or whatever it's going to be tomorrow. And let's be very clear, that community and the very real people who are dealing with some really ugly stuff right now, like the bomb threats, are having that inflicted on them as part of this strategy from a campaign that wants to talk about anything but their actual record and their actual agenda. Donald Trump and JD Vance cannot afford for this campaign to be about things like how Donald Trump eliminated the right to choose and that continues to leave the door open to signing a national abortion ban. They definitely don't want this campaign to be about things like how we had a manufacturing recession under Donald Trump and what we have to do to keep the manufacturing boom that is going on right now going. These are not things they want to be talking about. Obviously, they don't want to be talking about the particulars of the Trump-Vance healthcare plan because they don't have one. They have this so-called “concept of a plan" that they keep saying is around the corner. He’s been saying that, I think, for nine years. So, they need to get us talking about something else. The crazier, the better. And they go for something that is so outrageous that you actually can't ignore it. The media can't ignore what's going on because very real pain has been inflicted – and fear, by the way – on people in this community and other communities around the country. And yet, if we take the bait and are completely diverted by it, then we're not talking about what this campaign is supposed to be about, which is the future of the American people.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let's talk about some of the policies. President Biden did issue some of the most restrictive executive actions on immigration of any Democrat, frankly, after illegal border crossings reached historic levels. That did anger some Democrats who said the asylum restrictions went too far. If Vice President Harris is elected, should she keep those executive actions in place?
PETE BUTTIGIEG:
Well, I think her response is going to reflect the conditions and the reality, just as President Biden was forced to take steps that are a response to the reality that we experienced with the post-Covid migration surge plus, of course, the failure of Congress to act. Let's remember, we wouldn't be here in this particular situation if Donald Trump hadn't intervened to sabotage a bipartisan deal that was worked out, with Republicans and Democrats, on what to do with the border. And, by the way, that legislation and the executive action, it's true, is more conservative than what some in the Democratic Party would like to do. But, again, we're not having a serious policy debate about immigration or any other issue. If you’ve got JD Vance on your program, basically debating exactly how racist it is to talk about the things that Laura Loomer is talking about. This is the kind of sideshow that they want to take the main stage, so that they don't have to talk about anything serious. And it's a reminder of just how exhausting it was to deal with all this the first time Donald Trump was president. America would be in for another four years of this exhausting chaos every time we checked the news, if they come back into power.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me zoom out and ask you, broadly speaking – obviously this has been the topic of discussion – Vice President Harris has shifted her position on several policy issues. When she first ran for president in 2019, she initially wanted to ban fracking. Now, she doesn't. She initially wanted civil penalties, instead of criminal, for illegal border crossings. Now, she doesn't. She supported Medicare for All. Now, she doesn't. To those voters who have concerns about this, given her shifts in policy positions, if she's elected, why won't she change her mind again?
PETE BUTTIGIEG:
Well, look, you develop your policies based on what you see happening in the world around you and what you're able to accomplish in Washington. You take the example of immigration. We just talked through what's changed over the last five years. We could say the same thing on climate. Lots of ideas were being kicked around five years ago, when there was basically zero climate policy during the Trump years. Now, we have a climate policy. It's called the Inflation Reduction Act. It does not include a ban on fracking, because that's not the Biden-Harris Administration's policy. But what it has done is caused a lot of factories to be built, right now, in places like where I grew up, in places like where JD Vance grew up, creating jobs in a new energy economy – as well as a lot of good, old-fashioned building trades and constructions jobs – that would be destroyed, if Donald Trump follows through on his promise to get rid of the Inflation Reduction Act. Those are the actual policies we're actually working with. And every election is about the future and not the past. And that future looks very different, depending on who's about to win.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But just to follow up, I think voters do have a lot of questions about the vice president's policies, how specifically she sees her administration. She sat down for her first solo interview on Friday. She was asked about how a Harris administration would differ from a Biden administration. Here's what she had to say.
[START TAPE]
VICE PRES. KAMALA HARRIS:
My approach is about new ideas, new policies that are directed at the current moment. And also, to be very honest with you, my focus is very much on what we need to do, over the next 10, 20 years, to catch up to the 21st century around, again, capacity, but also challenges.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Does the vice president need to give more specifics to that answer – how a Harris administration would differ from a Biden administration – if she wants to win this election?
PETE BUTTIGIEG:
Yeah. Well, look. You can go on her website. You can get specifics on everything, from the exact percentage point that she thinks is appropriate for the capital gains tax, to how she's going to make sure more housing is built in this country. And I'm sure over the coming days in the campaign there will be more conversations that bring even more details to light. She's also a pragmatic person who knows that, you know, the reality of policy is that there's a give and take around your core values, principles and goals in order to get things done. And that's certainly been the experience of the last four years, where, you know, the policy framework we've emerged with isn't, you know, something that was set in stone in a presidential campaign and then turned, in every particular, into reality. But here's what I'll say. When it comes to policy, there are very clear and very specific differences, right? Donald Trump is for tax cuts for the rich and for tariffs that economists estimate will add about $4,000 a year to the cost for American families. She believes in making the wealthy pay their fair share. And she’s put out the exact percentage point that she wants to bring that to so that they are paying their fair share. Donald Trump eliminated the right to choose and will likely build on that. You couldn't even get a straight answer out of JD Vance right now on whether he would veto a national abortion ban. And you definitely didn't get a straight answer out of JD Vance right now on what his healthcare plan is going to be. So, you know, any conversation about policy, it's very clear what the differences are, but we've got a lot of unanswered questions on the Trump side. The best way to answer those questions is to look at what promises he actually did keep when he was president, which was tax cuts for the rich and ending the right to choose.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Worth noting that, of course, Biden-Harris Administration left those Trump tariffs in place. Just very quickly, about 10 seconds, Mr. Buttigieg, as you know, Trump does better on the economy than Vice President Harris. Is she running out of time to make her case?
PETE BUTTIGIEG:
Well, she's going to keep making her case. And I think the more Americans contemplate the difference between his economic vision of tax cuts for the rich and hers of standing with workers and the middle class, the more they're going to like our economic message and not their unpopular Project 2025 vision.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Pete Buttigieg, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it. When we come back: After this week's debate, the fight for swing voters is now playing out in the battleground states. Who has the advantage? Our panel is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back, the panel is here: NBC News Senior Washington Correspondent Hallie Jackson, anchor of Sunday Nightly News; Jonathan Martin, politics bureau chief and senior political correspondent for Politico; Symone Sanders-Townsend, former chief spokesperson to Vice President Harris; and Marc Short, former chief of staff to Vice President Mike Pence. Thanks to all of you for being here. Hallie, I’ve got to kick it off with you.
HALLIE JACKSON:
All right.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You and I have been chewing over the state of the race all week long together. We just got this new ABC News/Ipsos poll showing that basically nothing has changed post-debate. Harris still has a very narrow lead, within the margin of error. Polls show she also – bigger majority of voters think she won the debate. But what's the impact here? Where are we in this race?
HALLIE JACKSON:
Yeah. Hot scoop: It's still really close, right? It's still really competitive.
MARC SHORT:
Wow, big.
HALLIE JACKSON:
Listen, Marc, you heard it here first. In conversations, I will tell you, just this morning from a Biden campaign aide, they say, "Listen, this poll – We knew this race was going to be close. The vibes are good, essentially. But we know that there's a lot of work to do on the ground. We’ve got to get out there; we’ve got to do it; we’ve got to prosecute the case," right? And when you look at this poll, it basically does show that, yeah, voters think that she won the debate. But it doesn't catalyze much movement on the ground, if you will. The Trump team, in talking with their folks over the course of the last 24 hours, they feel like she did not effectively prosecute the difference – as you just talked with Pete Buttigieg about – between what her administration would do versus what the Biden Administration has done. Nor do they think she made the case on the economy. And that has been the state of their, sort of, thinking strategically about this all along. But we know, of course, that when it comes to former President Trump, you can have a strategy, people can build a strategy around him. But ultimately, it's what the candidate does. And what we saw from him on stage was him, as we've talked about, consistently taking the bait that Kamala Harris laid out, essentially.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I mean, he took every piece of bait that she threw out, Jonathan. And I know you've been talking to Republicans about this, the fallout from the debate, and now conspiracy theory upon conspiracy theory, and traveling around the country with Laura Loomer.
JONATHAN MARTIN:
Well, Trump's whole strategy has been to deepen his coalition rather than broaden it, right? In politics, you have campaigns of mobilization and persuasion. Most candidates for president do both. You mobilize your base and you persuade undecideds. Trump is much more of a mobilizer only. He's not trying to persuade that voter in the political center. He's not trying to get the kind of George W. Bush or Marc Short Republican, if you will. He's trying to get more like-minded people. Here's the reveal.
HALLIE JACKSON:
That's right.
JONATHAN MARTIN:
After Labor Day, Trump rolls out Tulsi Gabbard and RFK Jr. Kamala Harris rolls out Liz and Dick Cheney. It tells you everything about the two campaigns that you’ve got to know in their tactics and their approaches. Trump wants to deepen, he wants to get somebody who either is not going to vote at all, or vote for him instead of trying to go to the political center. But real fast, I just don’t think that Kamala Harris has work to do to get the kind of voter that's never going to vote for Donald Trump, but that person is still not sure if they can vote for a Democrat.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, that's where the filling in the details comes in –
JONATHAN MARTIN:
Key, yes.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– which still has not happened yet. Marc Short, I mean, to that point, is Trump's strategy working? Here we are, talking about these baseless claims in Springfield, Ohio, instead of what his allies, his supporters want him to be talking about, which is his immigration policy, and frankly, the economy, his strongest suit.
MARC SHORT:
I think it's an enormously missed opportunity. I think the reality is, to Hallie's conversation, Trump's not going to bleed support. His support is locked in. And see, I don't think he lost a lot by that. But it was a huge missed opportunity to prosecute the case against the Biden-Harris Administration on the border, on the economy, on her plan for trillions of dollars in new tax increases. But instead we're talking about how much you inherited in your family wealth. We're talking about Haitian migrants stealing dogs and cats, or you know, the size of your rally crowds. And so, I just think it was an enormous missed opportunity. To J-Mart's point, I do think that, you know, it would make sense if you were trying to deepen your support in a multi-candidate field. But ironically, the Trump campaign actually helped make sure this is a binary choice by helping to push Kennedy out of the race.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Symone, do you think that Harris is doing enough to capitalize on this moment? Is she building on what seems to be some momentum coming out of this?
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
I think so. Look, they've had an aggressive tour coming out of this debate and this whole week. We've started to see more local television interviews. Frankly, I think that's something that they should've been doing for the entire time. When I worked for her that's what we did. Always talk to the local press. Because if people are not watching national news, you can be sure that they are turning on their 5 o’clock, 7 o’clock news, and seeing those clips and those sit-downs make a difference. I think that this strategy that the Trump campaign has employed – if we can call it a strategy. Which it just might be – It's Donald Trump’s strategy. I think it is one that, yes, deepens support that he already has. But it will turn off people that, to J-Mart's point, maybe they're not sure that they were going to vote for Kamala Harris and Tim Walz. But they're seeing what Donald Trump is doing and they're like, "Okay, well, maybe I just need to get out there and vote."
HALLIE JACKSON:
Just this morning I was talking to a Republican who said, "Listen, does everybody like Donald Trump? No. Are they going to vote for Kamala Harris?" Speaking, I think, of this is more, like, sort of donor world, that kind of world. Saying, "No." But like, what's the other alternative? These folks are not going to go and support Kamala Harris. And so like, "Do we love everything he does? Nope. Are we going to get behind him?" And has that not been the story since 2015? I mean, inside the Republican Party.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
Absolutely.
HALLIE JACKSON:
I think you're seeing it cemented more and more now, especially as even top officials inside the Trump organization will acknowledge, it's a distraction, this Laura Loomer stuff. They don't want to see it. They don't like it.
JONATHAN MARTIN:
But Kamala Harris has been running a campaign of reassurance, literally for six weeks now, trying to reassure voters in the political center, "Don't worry about my 2019 stances. Here's my convention speech wrapped in red, white, and blue." It's been, I think, a smart campaign. I still think she has to go one step further to really reel in more of those voters who, again, they're skeptical about Trump to the point of not voting for him, but they're not totally sold on her yet. I think, by the way, that's why she wanted that second debate.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
Can I just make one point? There are all these new registered voters, and I think that makes a difference. Like, in these polls that we're seeing, what is a likely voter in an election where there's record new registrants? And so I don't think we actually know what the electorate looks like.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I know. Interesting.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
And there could be more Democratic base voters that previously were unengaged, and now they're going to go to the polls.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Marc, J-Mart mentioned the debate. Is there going to be a second debate? What is – And should there be?
MARC SHORT:
I don't think any of us knows, honestly, Kristen. I know what Donald Trump has said, but I think he's known to change his mind, opinion.
JONATHAN MARTIN:
Donald Trump?
MARC SHORT:
And I think if polls continue to go the wrong way then I can see a scenario where there is. But I think it's probably less than 50-50.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It was interesting to hear vice presidential nominee JD Vance say he's learned his lesson, he no longer speaks for Donald Trump on the issue of a national abortion ban, Hallie.
HALLIE JACKSON:
He could've probably spoken to any former White House Press Secretary over the course of the four years that Donald Trump was in office to learn that lesson too. It's an issue, Kristen, that you raised with him weeks ago that continues to be making news, of course.
JONATHAN MARTIN:
Well, JD Vance is sort of happy to go out there and defend Trump at every turn. But I'll tell you, there are a lot of folks watching that interview on TV and wondering, "Is this really worth it for JD Vance to do this for his political future?"
MARC SHORT:
It's also concerning, if it's one of the most important issues for Republican voters, and they haven't talked about it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, well, much more to come, guys. Stick around. When we come back, will Taylor Swift's endorsement of Kamala Harris impact the election? Our Meet the Press Minute looks at the power of celebrity endorsements, next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. This week, megastar Taylor Swift surprised even the Harris campaign by announcing her support for the Vice President in an Instagram post to her more than 280 million followers after the debate, writing, "I'm voting for Kamala Harris because she fights for the rights and causes I believe need a warrior to champion them." Swift's post endorsing Harris drove nearly 406,000 visitors to Vote.gov, a voting information website, over the 24 hours following her announcement. How much do celebrity endorsements matter? In 2016, actor George Clooney joined Meet the Press to talk about the influence and money public figures can bring to the table.
[START TAPE]
GEORGE CLOONEY:
There is a difference between the Koch brothers and us, you know? The difference is if I succeed, if we succeed in electing an entire Congress, which would be quite a success, but a Senate and a President, you know, the tax policies that they would enact would probably cost us a lot more money, quite honestly. The Koch brothers would profit if they get their way, and that’s what, you know, there’s no profit for us in this. You know, understanding this: Koch brothers have said that they're going to spend $900 million not on the presidency, but on the down-ticket, on the senators, and the congressmen, and the gubernatorial races and local races. And so our job is to try and counter that in some way.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, we're expecting more political star power on the campaign trail. Will it help energize voters? The panel returns next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is still here. Marc Short, I've been talking to allies of former President Trump throughout the past several days. They are really bothered by the fact that Laura Loomer, this conspiracy theorist, has been traveling with him on his plane to the 9/11 memorial, for example. Do you think his statement and what we heard today from Senator JD Vance will be enough to put that criticism to rest? They're concerned it will hurt him with voters in places like North Carolina and Georgia, which have high proportions and populations of Indian-American voters.
MARC SHORT:
Again, I feel like Trump's support is so locked in, I'm not so sure it hurts him. I think at the end of the day, having seen some of the videos, frankly, that the Biden-Harris White House put out on social media, I'm not willing to cede the ground that the Democrat Party is the party of normalcy. Having said that, this is an unnecessary distraction. It's like, you should be prosecuting the case on what their economic plan is or how they failed on border security. And if the media's talking about Laura Loomer every day, it's a missed opportunity to actually be on the offense.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
I'm a political baby, but I am old enough to remember when a certain Democratic candidate had a pastor that people felt was problematic. And some of the statements that the pastor had made – I'm talking about Pastor Jeremiah Wright.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Obama with Jeremiah Wright, yes.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
And Obama distanced himself from his pastor.
KRISTEN WELKER:
He gave a whole speech.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
He gave a whole speech about it. Laura Loomer is – Jeremiah Wright and Laura Loomer are not in the same vein at all. But to be very clear, what she is saying is problematic, and she is – the problem is she's on the plane with the former president of the United States of America, potential next president. And what she is saying to him seems to be making its way at least onto the debate stage in front of 67 million people last Tuesday.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yes, people and his allies have been –
JONATHAN MARTIN:
Well, the issue, Kristen, isn’t his staff.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, go ahead.
JONATHAN MARTIN:
His staff's embarrassed by it. Certainly folks on Capitol Hill are embarrassed by her. You saw the comments from GOP lawmakers. It's the candidate. He's not embarrassed by her.
KRISTEN WELKER:
That's right.
JONATHAN MARTIN:
He wants her around. He wants people like that around because they say nice things to him. And frankly, he's sympathetic to her views. This is the bottom-line challenge for the GOP. This is your candidate. It's not Laura Loomer, it's Donald J. Trump and his views, and his impulses. Are you for that, are you against that? It's a time of choosing for the Republican Party. The centerpiece of his campaign is demagoguing immigrants. And so I think that's the real challenge for today's GOP. Is that what you want your standard bearer to do?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, and what so many people are saying to me is, "We are so close to Election Day. There's not time for this type of distraction.” Hallie, on the other side of things, the Harris campaign is celebrating after they got a huge endorsement in the minutes after the debate. Taylor Swift, her hundreds of millions of followers. She announced –
HALLIE JACKSON:
Two hundred and eighty, to be specific.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yes, I know you know. How big of an impact does this have? Does it matter?
HALLIE JACKSON:
For the record, I am not a Swiftie, right? But like, let's talk about it, because she is this huge figure, I promise, in pop culture. Nothing to be embarrassed about if I was. Which is this, like, I think that the Harris campaign maybe would've wanted a little bit of a different timing, right? Because she ended up having a good – Based on the polls, they feel, and voters feel like she ended up winning that debate. That said, the Taylor Swift endorsement, let's be a little bit humble. We don't actually know what it's going to mean come Election Day, right? We can look at various things, we can look at the fact that she got 300,000, 400,000 people to get over to the voter registration site. Did they actually register? We don't know. We can look back at numbers after Oprah endorsed former President Barack Obama. A study years later showed that it got about a million people to turn out. Were they in those key battleground states? We don't know. This ABC News poll that's just out today says about 6% of people, only 6%, says that this endorsement makes them more likely to vote for Kamala Harris. Is that going to be enough? We don't know. What we do know is that she's got a ton of star power.
MARC SHORT:
She does.
HALLIE JACKSON:
She's got a big platform. And she's using it for one of the candidates here. And their campaign says, "We're not a celebrity-driven campaign," but like, you know, they don't hate it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
They’ll take it.
JONATHAN MARTIN:
Here's what to watch. The voter registration deadlines of key battleground states.
HALLIE JACKSON:
Great point.
JONATHAN MARTIN:
Keep an eye on those. And if they do deploy Taylor Swift, I can guarantee you it's going to be right before those deadlines to get folks to register to vote. And you can't go to the Swift concert unless you show you're registered to vote.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. Marc, what do you think Republicans are thinking right now? We should also note that the Obamas are going to be fundraising for the vice president, obviously will be out campaigning with her as well, as well as the Clintons.
MARC SHORT:
So I mean, look, I think the reality is the Democrat Party is certainly more united at this point. And I think that that's going to be, you know, a challenge. And you know, back to your previous conversation on Laura Loomer. I do think as well that Trump is always a contrarian. So the more the press tells him he can't do it, the more he will dig in and want to wrap himself around her, which again, I don't think is helpful to where you're trying to get between now and the next 50 days.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, there's not a whole lot of time left. That's for sure.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
Literally tomorrow in Pennsylvania people start voting. Early voting in Pennsylvania starts tomorrow.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It's unbelievable.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
It is insane. By the end of this month, voters will be going to the polls in Michigan. Forty days before Election Day in Michigan the polls are open. So it is, I think, just critical, frankly, for both of the campaigns to really hunker down. In a campaign, y'all know, every single day makes a difference.
HALLIE JACKSON:
That's right.
SYMONE SANDERS-TOWNSEND:
What happens in a week in a campaign is more like three months sometimes when it comes to governing. But this strategy, again, that each campaign is employing, Kamala Harris looks like she is playing to win. Donald Trump, I don't know.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well you know, Jonathan, the next big event is the VP debate. And it's stunning to think they could have the final word in this race if there is no second debate. Again, it's an if. We watch and we wait to see. But how high are the stakes? Are people going to watch? And could that change minds?
JONATHAN MARTIN:
I think it could change some minds at the margins. I think not a ton. But certainly I think Tim Walz could sort of, you know, reinforce the campaign of reassurance that I mentioned a minute ago for Kamala Harris, aimed at that sort of middle-of-the road voter that's never going to vote for Trump, but isn't sure that they can get quite yet to Kamala Harris. I do think that she has to do a little bit more, especially on the immigration issue. I mentioned this is now the focal point for Donald Trump, going after immigrants in ways I think turn off a lot of Americans. She's got to find a way, Kristen, to say, "Yes, we're a nation of immigrants, but we're also a nation of laws." And talking about the border and border security. How does she find that balance? And I think if she could find that balance on that issue in particular, I think it'll be crucial to her success.
HALLIE JACKSON:
The bottom line is, in this fractured media landscape, which we all know about, there are not many opportunities to reach nearly 70 million Americans –
JONATHAN MARTIN:
That's right.
HALLIE JACKSON:
– all at once in their living rooms, right? And that's where debates, I think, are useful to these candidates.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Absolutely. Guys, thank you. Fantastic conversation. Really appreciate it. That is all for today. Thank you so much for watching. We'll be back next week, because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.