CHUCK TODD:
This Sunday: Our struggling recovery.
NOEL HACEGABA:
Everything we're seeing today was induced by the pandemic.
CHUCK TODD:
Higher prices, slower job creation and a supply chain backlog with no end in sight.
MIGUEL ALMAGUER:
Have you ever seen a backlog like this ever?
NOEL HACEGABA:
Never. We've never seen anything like this.
CHUCK TODD:
And with workers feeling empowered, more than 180 union strikes already this year.
CHRIS LAURSEN:
It's a resurgence of the labor movement. You know, the cheap labor bubble’s finally busted.
CHUCK TODD:
My guest this morning, Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg. Plus: The battle over vaccine mandates.
JOHN CATANZARA:
I guarantee you at least half the department’s staying home come Saturday morning.
CHUCK TODD:
Companies and municipalities requiring vaccines, and the battle lines are drawn.
DENNIS TAJER:
Vaccination or termination.
CHUCK TODD:
While some Republican governors see a political advantage in opposing mandates.
GOV. RON DESANTIS:
Unfortunately, this has become about politicians wanting to control people.
CHUCK TODD:
I'll talk to Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson. And God and politics. While most evangelicals are aligning with former President Trump --
ANNE THOMPSON:
Do you think God is using President Trump?
KEN PETERS:
Absolutely. I think President Trump is a miracle.
CHUCK TODD:
-- others remain wary of mixing religion with outright partisan politics.
PHILIP NORDSTROM:
The bible belt is unbuckling.
CHUCK TODD:
Looking at the divide in the evangelical movement. Joining me for insight and analysis are: Amy Walter, editor-in-chief and publisher of the Cook Political Report, NBC News Senior Capitol Hill Correspondent Garrett Haake, Kimberly Atkins Stohr, senior opinion writer for The Boston Globe and John Podhoretz, editor of Commentary. Welcome to Sunday. It's Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history. This is Meet the Press with Chuck Todd.
CHUCK TODD:
And a good Sunday morning. The economy's inability to fully recover from the shock of Covid-19 is both an economic story and a political one. So what is holding the economy back? In the spring, we thought we were turning the corner on Covid, but when we turned that corner, the Delta variant was waiting on the other side to hit us hard in the face. Delta and vaccine refusals sent cases to their second highest peak of this pandemic this summer, before they finally began to trend downward. Let’s hope there’s not another variant out there. A post-Covid supply chain back-up has spread across the globe, causing cargo ship traffic jams, slowing delivery of goods and yes, driving up costs. In fact, those higher costs have helped feed a rise in prices all over the map, leading to the sharpest rise in inflation in 13 years. On top of that - millions of Americans have decided they don't want to return to their old high-stress, low-wage jobs. So, that’s keeping job creation stubbornly low for the last two months and takes some important workers out of the supply chain. All those economic problems add up to a big political problem for the president. Is all of this his fault? Of course not, but it is now his responsibility, and he and fellow Democrats are in real danger of suffering some serious political consequences. Mr. Biden ran on a promise of a basic return to normal, or at least a path to normalcy. But with the midterm elections just over a year away, unless voters see evidence of this new normal, they may decide to return power back to the Republicans.
NOEL HACEGABA:
Everything we're seeing today was induced by the pandemic.
CHUCK TODD:
The slow economic recovery is hurting President Biden's standing - eroding voter confidence in his competency and threatening to overshadow his agenda.
MIGUEL ALMAGUER:
Have you ever seen a backlog like this ever?
NOEL HACEGABA:
Never.
CHUCK TODD:
There's the crush of cargo in the nation's ports.
THOMAS GOLDSBY:
It's something like the python trying to swallow the alligator. That's the kind of volume that we're trying to send through our ports right now.
CHUCK TODD:
On Wednesday, President Biden addressed the supply chain crisis, announcing the ports of Long Beach and Los Angeles, which handle 40% of the nation's cargo, will now be open 24/7.
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
Our goal is not only to get through this immediate bottleneck but to address the long-standing weaknesses in our transportation supply chain that this pandemic has exposed.
CHUCK TODD:
Retailers are warning of price hikes and shortages over the holiday season. Products are not just harder to get - but more expensive. Prices for kids' shoes - up 12% in the past year. Beef - up 17%. New and used cars - up 24%. And gas - up 42%.
ED BASTIAN
Fuel costs are a bit of a headwind. I think you're looking at inflation across many industries.
CHUCK TODD:
Then there's the turmoil in the labor market itself. Americans are quitting their jobs in record numbers - 4.3 million in August alone. Those who remain are demanding better pay and working conditions - with strikes rippling across the country.
CHRIS LAURSEN:
The cheap labor bubble is finally busted, you know, and part of that is due to the pandemic.
MARIE RITACCO:
I think the pandemic has awakened the union movement again.
CHUCK TODD:
Those economic aftershocks are taking a toll on President Biden's approval ratings.
NEW ORLEANS RESIDENT:
When these guys get into office, it’s a job that has to continue, not just when you win the election.
NEW ORLEANS RESIDENT:
People don't know what to do and who to vote for. I mean they made a change, doesn't seem to be really working, because he's a good vice president but I don't think he's a president.
CHUCK TODD:
The president is pitching his social spending plans as a solution.
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
Despite the attacks and misinformation, my plan still has the overwhelming support of the American people when they're told what's in it.
CHUCK TODD:
But Republicans, seeing an opening, are stepping up criticism.
SEN. RICK SCOTT:
Joe Biden is killing this economy.
REP. KEVIN BRADY:
This is an economic crisis of their own making.
SEN. TED CRUZ:
It's driving an inflation bomb throughout the economy.
CHUCK TODD:
With the first test of this political environment in the Virginia governor election, just over two weeks away, the Democratic nominee is nervous.
GOV. TERRY MCAULIFFE:
Now if I were running the show here, I’d get everybody in a room, lock the door, what do you need, what do you need, and let’s get this thing done.
CHUCK TODD:
And joining me now is the secretary of transportation, Pete Buttigieg. Secretary Buttigieg, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEC. PETE BUTTIGIEG:
Thanks for having me back.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to start, obviously, with this issue of the supply chain. You're secretary of transportation. The ports, all of this is under your purview here. The big news you made was trying to establish a 24/7 operation now at as many of our nation's ports as possible. But let me ask you, this supply chain issue has been a problem for months. Why wait till this week to try that? Why weren't we at a 24/7 operation nine months ago, ten months ago, a year ago?
SEC. PETE BUTTIGIEG:
Well, I can't speak to a year ago before this administration was in office, but what I can tell you is that as soon as the president came in, he issued an executive order to, I think, in February to look at the supply chain from all angles. Now, one of the things that we started looking into earlier this year was these expanded operations. If you think about the scale and the complexity of these ports, obviously, it's not something that you can do overnight. But after bringing together the players, agreeing that this is a good approach, seeing the pilot launched in Long Beach, and now being able to announce, as the president did last week, that L.A. is also going 24/7, we've got major progress on that front. Now, that's just one piece of a very complex puzzle where you've got the terminals, the rail piece, you've got the warehouses, the drivers. And we're working on all of those angles. But let's remember, these are private sector systems. This is a capitalist country. Nobody wants the federal government to own or operate the stores, the warehouses, the trucks, or the ships, or the ports. Our role is to try to make sure we're supporting those businesses and those workers who do.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, let me ask you about various ideas that industry leaders are going to be asking the federal government for. I'm going to put up four ideas that we have found in our research. There are some that would like to see deploying of the National Guard, maybe even use of the U.S. Navy at the ports themselves; a suspension of some of the tariffs that, right now, have added to the cost of shipping; fill some of these vacant jobs using some temporary visas with labor from overseas; and possibly even tap some national defense funding. So let's unpack this. The National Guard. The state of Massachusetts is using the National Guard to fill a gap of school bus drivers, right? Is there any reason why you wouldn't use the National Guard to try to get more truck drivers on the road?
SEC. PETE BUTTIGIEG:
Well, right now, we're focused on some other steps that we think are making a difference, including my department, working with the state DMVs to cut some of the red tape for issuing commercial drivers licenses. Look, we're constantly going to reevaluate all of our options. But the steps we're taking right now are going to make a difference. And let's also acknowledge we have some more profound issues in our economy. Look at truck driving. If you look at the large employers of truck drivers, the annual rate of turnover is 90%. That tells us that there's something deeper going on than any short-term fix is going to address. Truck drivers want to be paid. They want to be respected. The secretary of labor, Marty Walsh, and I have been speaking out about this from earlier this year. And if we're not dealing with these deeper issues in our economy, just like we've got to deal with deep issues in our infrastructure, then, you know, these shorter-term measures are really not going to be enough. That's why we have things like the infrastructure bill, like the Build Back Better plan that are really going to set up America for success in the long term.
CHUCK TODD:
I understand that, but we've got a short-term problem here, just like -- look, most of our ports are out of date technologically, right? So, you know, it’d be great to sort of build some new ports and have some, but some of these things take time. What you're describing takes time. It doesn't mean there are going to be gifts on the shelves to buy for Christmas this December. It sounds like what you're setting up the country for is -- do agree -- do you concur that this is going to get worse before it gets better?
SEC. PETE BUTTIGIEG:
Well, what I can tell you is that, you know, we're doing everything we can for the short term and the long term. And there are some X factors out there on everything from, you know, pandemic-related closures of factories and ports in Asia, to things that are going on through the chain on the U.S. side. Now, of course, the other thing we've got to talk about is that this isn't just a matter of supply. This is a matter of supply and demand. Every item you see, every container on every ship that is waiting at anchor in the ports of L.A. and Long Beach or anywhere else is there because an American company or consumer purchased it. And that's because demand has surged. Retail sales are off the charts. Remember, these ports are already bringing through record amounts of goods this year. And that's a sign, of course, of the successful work that's been done to bring the economy out of the teeth of the recession that we were facing earlier. So we've got that issue of demand that's mismatched with supply. And now, we've got to make sure that the supply chains in the short term and the long run are positioned to catch up. Now, a lot of this should be resolved by markets, but we're not waiting for the markets to take care of it.
CHUCK TODD:
Right. One other thing that the government can do is tariff relief. Is it on the table?
SEC. PETE BUTTIGIEG:
Again, I think that any opportunity to make a difference will be looked at. But let's also remember that the president's overall policy of Buy America is constantly pushing for us to make and source more goods in America, would be a big part of the solution on a lot of these issues. All right, if we didn't need to go overseas for so many of our products, we would have a lot more resilience in our supply chain when there is, you know, anything from a typhoon to a Covid outbreak shutting down a factory overseas. And so it's one more reason why the president is rightly calling on America and working for America to build up more of that domestic manufacturing and other supply capacity.
CHUCK TODD:
One of your tasks these days is also trying to sell the president's agenda, particularly what -- you've referred to it a few times on Build Back Better. There seems to be some news over the weekend that some of the biggest, perhaps the most important climate change -- climate provisions in the bill have been struck down because of some negotiations with Senator Manchin. Are you concerned that the lack of an aggressive action on climate, that it looks like this bill no longer will have in order to get 50 votes, is going to end up costing you progressive support? I mean, is what it takes to get Manchin on climate, going to lose progressives on climate?
SEC. PETE BUTTIGIEG:
Well, look, the president is committed to major climate action. He has been from day one. He saw that in everything from rejoining Paris, to the achievements of the Climate Summit, to the preparations for the talks that are going to take place next month in Glasgow. And this is important not just morally, but also economically, something I think we need to recognize, that, like any maintenance issue, and this is basically a maintenance issue for the planet. The longer you take to deal with it, the more there will be costs in livelihoods and in dollars and, of course, in lives. So this remains a core commitment of this administration. And, of course, my slice of it as transportation secretary is one that we're working very hard on to prepare America for a future with more electric vehicles and to decarbonize other sectors of transportation, which amounts to the biggest part of our economy when it comes to emissions right now.
CHUCK TODD:
Are we going to hold up the bipartisan infrastructure bill any longer than October 31st if there's no deal on the larger agenda?
SEC. PETE BUTTIGIEG:
Look, I'm not going to predict legislative mechanics. What I will say is that we've got to get this done. And we've got to get this done for the American people and the American economy. Look, the Build Back Better vision and the infrastructure bill are supported by a majority of Americans. They're going to make lives better concretely in this country. They're going to strengthen the economy. And one I think underappreciated aspect of the president's agenda is that it will also lower the inflationary pressures that we're experiencing in this economy by making it easier for people to thrive and do well in the workforce and by, of course, including our infrastructure that is so important to the supply chains that we've been talking about this morning.
CHUCK TODD:
I know you've been under some bizarre attack for taking paid leave by some loud mouths in our political system. But I want to ask you about paid family leave in general, because it apparently may not be in the final part of Build Back Better. You took it. The federal government offers it to federal government employees. What does it say if the president can't get paid family leave into his agenda?
SEC. PETE BUTTIGIEG:
Well, it's on the president's agenda. It's in the Build Back Better plan and I'm proud to work for an administration --
CHUCK TODD:
I don’t think -- but it may not last.
SEC. PETE BUTTIGIEG:
-- that walks the walk on family values.
CHUCK TODD:
It may not last in the plan.
SEC. PETE BUTTIGIEG:
You know, let me tell you, it is in the president's vision. And we'll see what the legislative process is going to bring. But the president's been very clear on what he's calling for. And the American people want this too. And frankly, I view this as something, or I wish, at least, that this were something that Republicans could join Democrats in calling for. Look, paid family leave is important. It's important as a matter of family values. It's important to our economy. And one more thing that I think is maybe underappreciated. When somebody welcomes a new child into their family and goes on leave to take care of that child, that's not a vacation. It's work. It's joyful, wonderful, fulfilling work, but it is work. And it's time that our nation join pretty much every other country in the world and recognize that.
CHUCK TODD:
Secretary Buttigieg, appreciate you coming on this morning and sharing the administration's view.
SEC. PETE BUTTIGIEG:
Thank you.
CHUCK TODD:
Let's turn now more directly to the pandemic. There's been a national tug-of-war of sorts going on between municipalities and some states and private companies that are issuing vaccine mandates and the many workers who are vehemently opposed to them. In some cases, it's Republican governors like Ron DeSantis of Florida and Greg Abbott of Texas. They've been outspoken opponents of mandates of all kinds, choosing to side with their more conservative and a growing group of anti-mandate voters, and against the private sector companies. But Governor Asa Hutchinson of Arkansas, who agrees that vaccines save lives, is taking a bit of a nuanced approach, I guess you could call it. Last week, he effectively approved a new state law that would allow workers to opt out of mandates even while saying he thought the law was harmful in getting more Arkansans vaccinated. Well, Governor Hutchinson joins me now. And Governor, welcome back to Meet The Press. And let me just dive right into this issue. You did not think this was a good law passed by your Republican-controlled legislature to essentially dictate to the private sector how they do these things. But you decided not to veto it. You decided not to have the, the veto fight with the legislature. Why?
GOV. ASA HUTCHINSON:
Well, the principle reason is that the whole debate on mandates takes away from the efficacy of the vaccines themselves and our push to increase vaccination rates. Ever since the president reversed his position and said, first said that we weren't going to have federal mandates and then he switched and said we are going to have federal mandates, and then some of the states came back and said, "Well, we ought to have state mandates to push back against the federal mandates," all of this slowed down acceptance of the vaccine and increased resistance. And so, I'd like to see us get back to, without the mandate battle, let's just encourage the vaccine acceptance, build confidence in it. And that's the direction we need to go. My heart goes out to these workers that many of them say, "We're not anti-vaxx. Were just anti-mandate." And they're making a principled stand. And that sort of makes the point that the mandates are not being beneficial. So, I pushed back here in Arkansas that we don't need to counter a federal mandate on our employers with a state mandate on our employers. That's just the wrong direction and I made that point.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, I want to ask you, though, if -- we got some evidence here that mandates work. Let me show you some statistics in your state. On August 1st, 36% of the state was fully vaccinated. After the vaccine mandate was announced and you had companies like Tyson and Walmart in your state, essentially, announce their own vaccine mandates, vaccine acceptance went up 30%, you got 46% of the state now. Is that not evidence that the mandates by Tyson and Walmart have had an impact?
GOV. ASA HUTCHINSON:
Well, absolutely, it does indicate that. And it's not just there, but our health care workers. Many of our hospitals have put in a requirement for vaccines and the rate goes up. So, yes, there is an effectiveness there. And so, let me make it clear that when I say I don't believe we ought to be engaging in mandates, I'm speaking of the government mandates, whether it's a federal government mandate or a state government mandate. And the states are sometimes coming in and saying, "Employers should not have the ability to impose a vaccine requirement on their workers." To me, that's the wrong direction as well. It's not practical in terms of creating that debate, but it's not principled either. So, I am a defender of the employer's right to provide a healthy workplace. You would have just as many workers say, "I don't want to work there because it's not a healthy workplace, because not everybody's going to be vaccinated." The employers are in a tough position. They should have the prerogative to make those decisions and I support that.
CHUCK TODD:
You know, there is a lack of consistency now in your party, not with you, on this issue, but this sort of government intervention with the private sector. Republican state legislatures all across the country have gotten really aggressive at trying to insert government either into overreach on local government decisions or on private sector decisions. Are you concerned about the direction of your party? That there is this sense of it's not a small government party anymore. It's a my government, my way, party, if you will, at least in these state legislatures.
GOV. ASA HUTCHINSON:
Well, it's an important debate on liberty. And my view has always been, which I believe is consistent with the principles of our party, that let's stay out of interfering with those private business decisions. These are not all large employers. They can be a small employer that wants to protect their business and their employees and their customers. They ought to have those decisions. To me, if you're going to say the government ought to come in and tell the employers what to do, the next thing is they could say we shouldn't have drug-free workplaces, where you can't require drug testing in the workplace by employers. I think that's wrong. I'm former head of the DEA and I believe employers ought to be able to make that decision. And if somebody doesn't comply and it's a sensitive workplace, they lose their job. We require that in many different sensitive businesses across the country. So, yes, I think when you're talking about a restraint on government, let's be consistent. I don't want the federal government doing the mandate. I don't want the state government doing the mandate. Let's try and be a little bit more consistent in that.
CHUCK TODD:
All right, but it is noticeable you chose not to fight. Why didn't you fight your Republican colleagues on this in the legislature?
GOV. ASA HUTCHINSON:
Well, that's the uniqueness of Arkansas. You can override my veto in Arkansas with a simple majority and I didn't want to bring them in for that same debate because every time we debate and spend a week debating vaccine mandates and efficacy, our resistance increases and our acceptance goes down. And so, I didn't want to recreate that. Let’s just move on and let's try to get back to the business of encouraging vaccines across the board.
CHUCK TODD:
Very quickly, it was among the bizarre statements that the former President Donald Trump has released this week was this one where he said this: “If we don’t solve the presidential election fraud of 2020,” his, his bizarre characterization, “which we have,” he claims, “ which we have thoroughly and conclusively documented, Republicans will not be voting in ‘22 and ‘24.” Many -- there’s some Senate Republicans that I’ve talked to who believe President Trump’s actions in Georgia encouraged people not to vote. Are you concerned that this is only going to hurt Republican turnout in the midterms?
GOV. ASA HUTCHINSON:
Re-litigating 2020 is a recipe for disaster in 2022. Let’s talk about the future. The election is passed, it’s been certified, the states made decisions on the integrity of each of their elections and made improvements where it need be. It’s about the future, it’s not about the last election, and that -- those kind of comments are not constructive. We can win in 2022. We’re going to, but let’s focus on the important issues of our supply chain, of getting over this pandemic, about freedom, and not the, not the last election.
CHUCK TODD:
Governor Asa Hutchinson, Republican from Arkansas, I appreciate you coming on and sharing your perspective with us, sir.
GOV. ASA HUTCHINSON:
Thank you. Great to be with you.
CHUCK TODD:
And sorry about those Hogs yesterday. I know I was pulling for them. When we come back, how worried should Democrats like Virginia's Terry McAuliffe be about this slow economic recovery and what that could mean for the 2022 midterms. The panel is here and it's next.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. Panel is here: Amy Walter, the editor-in-chief and publisher of The Cook Political Report; NBC News senior Capitol Hill correspondent, Garrett Haake; John Podhoretz, editor of Commentary; and Kimberly Atkins Stohr, the senior opinion writer for The Boston Globe. Garrett, I want to start with you because this entire issue, right, we have this sort of sluggish economy due to Covid. The president's agenda feels a bit sort of clogged up a little bit. What is the mindset of Democrats on Capitol Hill? Do they see the forest right now through these trees of obstruction, if you will?
GARRETT HAAKE:
I think they do. I mean, Democrats promised the world to their voters coming into the last election cycle. And now, they're trying to figure out what they can still deliver on. They've left some priorities by the wayside, the guns bill, the voting rights bill that'll get a vote this week that they don't think they're going to pass. All the marbles are on these two big spending bills right now. And they're just pretty well stuck. Now, I think everyone understands that the reconciliation bill is probably too big to fail. They will all survive or fail. And if they don't pass that big bill in some capacity, probably everybody's going home.
CHUCK TODD:
Amy, is it already though -- has it already got this weird, negative vibe to it even if they pass it? Here's what Politico wrote yesterday. I thought it was a bit harsh, this framing, but maybe they're right. "Here's the cold reality," they write. "It now appears all but impossible for Democrats to enact a reconciliation package that's anywhere near as far reaching as what polls suggest a large majority of Democratic voters want. And that effectively means that for a lot of Dems, it will be hard to see whatever ends up coming out of this process as a success -- the potentially dire implications for the party in 2022." Specifically, they were writing about the climate provisions, basically capitulating to Manchin's demands here, which, basically, Secretary Buttigieg didn't want to touch.
AMY WALTER:
See, I think the challenge really goes back more to what Garrett is saying, is that I don't know that Democratic voters are particularly excited about Build Back Better or infrastructure bills.
CHUCK TODD:
Don't you see all the --
AMY WALTER:
I think what they --
CHUCK TODD:
-- individual polling as they tell you this? Makes me nuts --
AMY WALTER:
I know it.
CHUCK TODD:
Just because something polls well, doesn't mean- -
AMY WALTER:
Doesn't mean --
CHUCK TODD:
-- it's on the --
AMY WALTER:
-- doesn’t mean that it's salient --
CHUCK TODD:
Tip of the tongue.
AMY WALTER:
It's not salient. What is salient, and I've been sitting in these focus groups, especially with younger African American voters. They know what they're talking about, exactly what Garrett said, which is, where's the police reform? We talked about that a lot in 2020. Voting rights. This is an existential threat to our country and, what, we can't pass it? You're in charge, Democrats. You have a chance to do this. And so I think they're sort of missing out on the things that do really energize Democrats on the one hand. And then the other is everything you just talked about, which is, there's just a sluggishness in the economy, in the optimism that he's also the president and Democrats aren't delivering on the sort of bread and butter that they were hoping they would.
CHUCK TODD:
Kimberly, how demoralized do you think the Democratic base could get if this gets fraught?
KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR:
Oh, I think it's already. I think it is very existential at this moment for all the reasons that Amy was talking about. I don't think it's just a matter that the Democrats promised the world to their voters, it's voters demanded these things from Democrats. And now, they're saying, "Okay, well, you have the White House. You have Congress. And after the end of two years, we have nothing." I think that will be absolutely devastating to the Democratic base if they walk away, not just with nothing, but yes, without voting rights particularly, without anything. Without making sure everyone has health care, the expansion of Medicaid. I mean, if they walk away with nothing, they can expect, as you said, to pack up.
CHUCK TODD:
John, I'm going to guess that you're going to agree with something Charlie Cook wrote. I should've made Amy respond to this --
AMY WALTER:
Yes, and made me --
CHUCK TODD:
But I'm not.
AMY WALTER:
-- in the hot seat.
CHUCK TODD:
No, no, no, no, because here's what Charlie wrote: "Democrats push for way too much without having the political capital to make it stick. It's killing them on overreach. It's killing them on competence. If misreading a mandate is a sin in politics, pretending that you have one when you don't is a mortal sin." Is that the issue?
JOHN PODHORETZ:
In March, Jon Meacham convened a bunch of historians at the White House who said to Biden, "You can be FDR. You can be LBJ." Lyndon Baines Johnson won election in 1964 with a 155-seat majority in the House and 69 --
CHUCK TODD:
Say that again.
JOHN PODHORETZ:
155-seat majority and 69 --
CHUCK TODD:
Is that more than five? Sorry.
JOHN PODHORETZ:
And 69 Democratic senators. And in 1965, they passed 70 major pieces of legislation. If you go to the Johnson Library, there are 70 pens lined up. That's the Great Society. Joe Biden has a majority of, nobody even knows. Is it three? Is it five? Is it four, in the House, and a 50/50 Senate. Only a 50/50 Senate because of bizarre machinations by Trump in November and December that depressed the Republican vote. Democrats went nuts in the winter. They went crazy. They were at the point of having $8 trillion of new spending with no consensus. Forget the Democratic base, there was no mandate to do any of this from the American people writ large.
GARRETT HAAKE:
But they're locked in structurally, right? I mean, you can't do voting rights with a 50-vote threshold. You can't pass a guns bill with a 50-vote threshold. You can spend money with a 50-vote threshold, and you have to say the price tag first. That's the way reconciliation works. And so they locked themselves into this messaging nightmare by saying, "Okay, we have to set the price tag," and then tell you all the good stuff it's going to do. And that's not --
AMY WALTER:
And then take it all out.
GARRETT HAAKE:
Right. And then take it all out. That's not a way you build a coalition around anything--
JOHN PODHORETZ:
No, and --
GARRETT HAAKE:
-- but it's what they were forced into doing.
JOHN PODHORETZ:
And they had a coalition for a bill. They had a huge spending bill, a $1 trillion infrastructure bill. That's a big bill. There was a time when, saying you were going to spend $1 trillion on a bill was, like, "What are you, crazy?" Obama didn't even spend $1 trillion on the stimulus package --
KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR:
But I'm not sure.
JOHN PODHORETZ:
-- in 2009.
KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR:
I'm not sure a trillion dollar spending package would satisfy the people who spent the pandemic marching in the streets for real social justice reform. So I don't think that that would solve all their problems either.
CHUCK TODD:
No, I get that, but it gets to the point. I almost wonder, was Manchin and Sinema too easy on Covid relief because it made the progressives think, "Oh, we got them for this. We'll get them for more"?
KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR:
I will not try to say what's in Senator Manchin's mind. I think he's enjoying being at the center of this conversation. I do think that the American people and Senator Manchin should realize that West Virginians make up one half of 1% of the American population.
JOHN PODHORETZ:
But the West Virginians who voted Joe Manchin in, voted almost 40% for Trump. Trump's margin was 40 points in 2020 in West Virginia.
CHUCK TODD:
Well --
JOHN PODHORETZ:
He is representing his constituents. Can I just say though? In 2001 when George W. Bush had a Senate almost exactly analogous to this, he got one major piece of legislation through that was a bipartisan piece of legislation, shepherded by Teddy Kennedy. That was No Child Left Behind. That was an education bill for which there had to be bipartisan support. They have that bill. They have the infrastructure bill. And Democrats are tanking the infrastructure bill.
CHUCK TODD:
Amy, how much is all of this malaise, if you will, in Washington, going to impact Mr. McAuliffe in Virginia?
AMY WALTER:
Yes. I mean, you can already feel it. And again, I think it's much more of the broader environment. And it's also very important for Glenn Youngkin that Donald Trump has stayed out of Virginia.
CHUCK TODD:
But he didn't.
AMY WALTER:
I mean, he didn't --
CHUCK TODD:
I mean, I will say this --
AMY WALTER:
-- but he was not --
CHUCK TODD:
-- have you watched TV in the last weekend?
AMY WALTER:
Well, yeah.
CHUCK TODD:
Because Terry McAuliffe --
AMY WALTER:
Terry McAuliffe is now --
CHUCK TODD:
-- is making sure that --
AMY WALTER:
That people know he called in --
CHUCK TODD:
And said his name.
AMY WALTER:
--to a rally.
CHUCK TODD:
He said the name, "Youngkin --"
AMY WALTER:
I know it. I know it.
CHUCK TODD:
It's a pretty important moment.
AMY WALTER:
It is. All right, well, let's put it this way: he is more important, I think, to turning out the Democratic base than whether a bill passes --
CHUCK TODD:
Than if things pass.
AMY WALTER:
-- Congress. Yes.
CHUCK TODD:
And that is I think potentially a long term problem for the Democrats. They can't keep going back to the Trump well.
GARRETT HAAKE:
Unless Donald Trump keeps running.
CHUCK TODD:
Fair point. When we come back, God and politics: the debate among Evangelicals about Donald Trump and whether he represents their values.
[BEGIN TAPE]
KEN PETERS:
One thing I've learned about scripture and the Lord is God can use anybody. In the Bible, he even used a donkey. And if God can use a donkey, he can use President Trump.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. One of the more unexpected developments in American politics in the last five years has been the enormous popularity of Donald Trump among the so-called values-voting evangelical community. Mr. Trump won 77% of the evangelical vote in 2016 and then 84% last year. On Meet the Press Reports, our weekly one-topic streaming show on NBC News Now and Peacock, my colleague Anne Thompson traveled just outside Knoxville, Tennessee, to report on the friction over what it means to be an evangelical today. Her report was so revealing, we wanted to share part of it this morning right here on Meet the Press.
[BEGIN TAPE]
ANNE THOMPSON:
Under this flag painted roof -- religion and politics mix --
KEN PETERS:
I want Trump to come back sooner than later. But you know who'd be a lot better than Trump coming back? Jesus coming back
ANNE THOMPSON:
With gusto --
KEN PETERS:
Biden you trouble Israel, leftists, you trouble Israel --
ANNE THOMPSON:
This is the Patriot Church, on the outskirts of Knoxville, Tennessee.
KEN PETERS:
You unvaccinated people. you are causing the trouble in the land, that what's what they say --
ANNE THOMPSON:
Founded by Pastor Ken Peters.
KEN PETERS:
This nation was founded on predominantly Christian values by predominantly Christian people, we just want to keep that in play. We just want to keep our roots alive and not let this reconstruction, this tearing up of our nation's roots and a new set of values is being pushed on us. It literally is.
ANNE THOMPSON:
So, whose values are being pushed on you?
KEN PETERS:
These are leftist worldly values. They can't stand Christian culture. Why? Because we believe marriage is between a man and a woman. We believe that there are only two genders. We believe that life in the womb is actually human life and they're murdering human life for money.
ANNE THOMPSON:
He is not afraid to take sides, and thinks God does too.
KEN PETERS:
One thing I've learned about Scripture and the Lord is God can use anybody. In the Bible, he even used the donkey, and if God can use a donkey, he can use President Trump.
ANNE THOMPSON:
Do you think God is using President Trump?
KEN PETERS:
Absolutely. I think President Trump is a miracle. I think God picked Donald Trump, an imperfect vessel, to be the champion of his people.
ANNE THOMPSON:
That intertwining of patriotism, politics and religion is attracting a devoted following.
JAYNE MILLER:
When you're in a culture where everybody's trying to silence you, it's great to be able to share how you really feel with people who feel the same way.
REBECCA GAI:
We're just checking it out. We actually saw it on CNN. And if they say something bad about it, it might be good.
ANNE THOMPSON:
Peters leading one side of the battle for the soul of the evangelical church.
KEN PETERS:
Well some of the evangelical church, I think, is soft. I think they're cowardly and they're trying to ride the fence between the left and the right. And so that's kind of where the divide is.
ANNE THOMPSON:
Here in the heart of the bible belt.
PHIL NORDSTROM:
I would say, as a person of faith who has been around church all my life, that the Bible Belt is unbuckling.
ANNE THOMPSON:
Across town, Pastor Phil Nordstrom leads the Life Church. What do you mean that the Bible Belt is unbuckling?
PHIL NORDSTROM:
The branding of Christianity has suffered.I think that our association with political extremism has especially turned off a younger generation toward evangelicalism. So one of the challenges we face right now is, who are we? What does it mean to be an evangelical?
ANNE THOMPSON:
Nordstorm is decidedly old school, a pro-life pastor pointedly staying away from partisan politics on Sunday.
PHIL NORDSTROM:
The funny thing is I'm probably personally pretty conservative. So I don't come across as like I'm a liberal evangelical, but, but people get the spirit -- get the feeling pretty quick that we're a pretty inclusive church, that everyone's welcome, that we're trying to not fight the culture wars from the pulpit.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
In reporting this story, I also sat down with Dr. Russell Moore, a high-profile conservative evangelical opponent of Donald Trump. Dr. Moore is now the public theologian at Christianity Today.
[BEGIN TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
What's fascinating is that if you look at some of the Pew studies, more people are identifying as white evangelical and yet fewer people are going to church.
RUSSELL MOORE:
Right --
CHUCK TODD:
It is, it is not, it is not as if these people are finding religion in the sense of what that phrase would have meant just a decade ago. What is happening here?
RUSSELL MOORE:
Well, that's what concerns me, I'm talking every day to church going evangelical Christians who don't want to use the word evangelical because it's become merely a political word and then those who don't go to church but who are using evangelical in a political sense as a way to own the libs. That's not a -- that's not a good development in my -- in my view. At once, evangelical Christianity is defined not by the gospel, but by some sort of cultural or political movement. We're in a really dangerous place. Evangelical Christianity is meant to be the good news of Jesus Christ and handing that over to a political agenda, no matter what the political agenda is a bad idea. And that's especially true when we're in this crisis moment where the moral credibility of virtually every institution is being challenged and the church is certainly no exception.
CHUCK TODD:
When you hear that the former president told a Christian broadcast -- he went on television and told them that he did more for Christianity or for evangelicals or for religion itself, that nobody else had done more. What do you think when you hear him say this?
RUSELL MOORE:
You know, I think that's the tragic part about the past several years, if I had heard that in 2015 or 2016 or 2017 even, I think I would have been -- I would have been outraged all day. I would have flinched immediately when hearing it. I wasn't really even surprised. I think I gave it a half second's thought --
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah --
RUSSELL MOORE:
-- and moved on because we have so, so many things like that being said that we've become used to it. And I think that's, that's part of the problem right now, the coarsening and the trivialization of rhetoric in American life. We're, we're getting used to it, and that's dangerous.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
Outrage fatigue, a huge problem. You can see our full report on the split in the evangelical movement streaming anytime on Peacock. These are considered 30 minute documentaries, if you will. When we come back: The events that led to this traffic jam off the coast of California... and what it could mean for your holidays and your pocketbook. Stay with us.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. Data Download time, and a look at what's causing the supply chain backups. We're going to follow just one product, an Apple iPhone. But it shows you the example. It'll show you how the breakdowns at every step of the process have led to shipping delays for you, really no matter the product. This is the iPhone, but it's even running shoes. Eson Precision Engineering, they make some component parts for the iPhone. Well, they had to shut down for a couple weeks due to both some health concerns and some power issues. This is not the only factory in China that's had these issues, but this is one that's impacted the iPhone. So there's your delay in manufacturing the iPhone. Now, to get the iPhone done, now they're putting it on a container ship. Well, guess what's happened, particularly as we've seen this sort of pent up demand? The amount of cargo being sent from China to the United States is up some 27%. That has led to quite the backlog of big container ships outside on the west coast of the United States. Trust me, you fly in and out of LAX, look out the window, you'll see this traffic jam, not just on the 405. But let's say you get the container ship empty. You've got to actually take that from the ports to the store shelves, whether it's your Apple Store, T-Mobile, Sprint, AT&T, et cetera. Well, we have a huge truck driving issue. In fact, since 2019, there are 22,000 fewer people in the truck driving industry, and this was an industry that was already struggling to find drivers even pre-Covid. Now, even harder than before. So you have a hard time getting the actual product to the shelf. Then--this has been a problem not just for iPhones, really for anything manufactured in China. So what has it meant overall? Pre-Covid, it basically took an average of 40 days to get a product from China to the shelves in the United States. Two years later, it is almost double. It now takes 73 days. And the real fear is that this is only going to get worse. Why? Demand's only going to grow. And we're still going to have this problem. We'll see. Some people think this could take years, not months to unravel. When we come back, what happens when workers feel empowered to demand better wages and conditions? Strike-tober, what else? Tens of thousands right now are walking the picket line. We'll have more next.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. Kimberly, workers have never had more leverage. And when you look around, this is like one of those things that, like, oh, every national news organization discovered strikes this week. But the fact is, it is happening. Look, we've seen it in our own organization, more openness to organizing, more openness to unions. This is one of the more interesting consequences of Covid.
KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR:
Yeah. Well, I think it's an accelerator actually, because we saw that sort of movement toward unionization in places like newsrooms coming up for a couple of years before this. And then you add Covid, where people realize, "Okay, if I'm not making enough money, if I don't have enough benefits and you're calling me essential and forcing me to go to the job, I'm rethinking about what this means. And that really put more leverage on the part of workers. Before, companies could pay them or not pay them whatever they wanted to. And things have changed in a really rapid way. And that's what this Strike-tober is representing.
CHUCK TODD:
And, John, this is not -- you know, there was always to me a very distinct line, you know, on labor unions between Democrats and Republicans. Not with the Trump base.
JOHN PODHORETZ:
Well, look, I think this is a generational moment. For the last 20 years, people have been frightened to lose their jobs. It's not just because of the economic dislocations of the meltdown of 2008. Because of health care and the worries about changing your job, because of the stuff that happened as a result of 9/11, all kinds of things, almost all the power in the United States has been in the hands of employers in part because of the anxiety of the workforce. And that goes from the very poor to the very wealthy. That is an anxiety shared by everybody. And suddenly, we have 9, or 10, or 11 million jobs open in the United States. And that's new. And I think the psychology of the employers or these corporations has yet to shift. I mean, they know they need to pay people a lot more money. Amazon is advertising paying people a lot more than $15 an hour and all of that. But I think of John Deere and some of these other places. My guess is that the corporate culture has not yet shifted into the idea that, "We've got to be a lot nicer to our workforce."
GARRETT HAAKE:
Yeah, I mean, look, people who in Washington are surprised by this dynamic have fundamentally misunderstood what happened in the pandemic, when people with white collar jobs stayed home and complained about hard it was to work on Zoom, and people with blue collar jobs who were essential went to work every day and braved the pandemic. I mean, if you think you had a hard time working from home, or you still are while you were working on Zoom and you don't understand why folks who've been out in it every day are striking and are very upset, I don't know what to tell you.
CHUCK TODD:
And even our service economy is a very labor intensive --
AMY WALTER:
Exactly.
CHUCK TODD:
-- economy. Let me put up some of the companies here. Instacart is one of the places that's having one of these labor. I mean, I do think that this new sector of the economy that factory workers were really important to our economy in the '50s and '60s --
AMY WALTER:
Now, it's the service economy --
CHUCK TODD:
I mean, the deliverers, you know--
AMY WALTER:
-- like, Door Dash, the Instacart, people who are --
CHUCK TODD:
And they're not paid very well.
AMY WALTER:
They're not paid very well. And so, right, are we going to have a generational change that this is COVID, we're going to look back 20 years from now and say, "That was the instigator for this"? Or, are we going to wake up three years from now and say, "Oh, well, it was Covid. And guess what, we're going to go back to normal because of all these other structural challenges we still have," which is, you know, getting back to health care. That is still a fundamental problem. Or, you know, so many of the other inequities that we have in our system. So look, I'm very interested to see where this all goes because the disruptors that we've expected in the past to make significant changes at least in our politics, whether it was 9/11 or whether it was the pandemic, didn't make big structural changes to our politics. But our economy, that's a whole different story.
CHUCK TODD:
All right, and go ahead.
JOHN PODHORETZ:
I'd just say speaking of the economy though, this is all happening at a time of rising and apparently non-transitory inflation. And if wages have to go up significantly, that's inflation too. This is a potential inflationary spiral. So you want to talk about political consequences, I'm sorry --
AMY WALTER:
Oh, the short term --
JOHN PODHORETZ:
-- that people can talk about this might be --
AMY WALTER:
There's short term, and then --
JOHN PODHORETZ:
-- great --
AMY WALTER:
-- and then there's much longer term --
JOHN PODHORETZ:
-- for Democrats, the new activism and all of that. This is not good for Biden either way. It's not good for Democrats either way. They have the House, the Senate, and the presidency. And we could be looking at inflation continuing to go up, in part justifiably in order to pay these people --
CHUCK TODD:
Kimberly, it's a weird economy. We have plenty of jobs, and it costs more to just keep your house.
KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR:
Yes. I mean, but one part of that is, yeah, you can have fears about inflation, but the structure was unsustainable. You have this gig economy, where people were working second and third jobs just to keep food on the table, just to pay for the health care that the law requires them to have. That was going to be unsustainable. So this, you know, conflagration of issues really brought it to the fore. And yes, you have these open jobs. But I think when you look at it study after study, it shows if you pay people more, they will take the jobs. It's really shifting from that corporate perspective that they can have large profits to saying, "To be profitable, you need to treat your employees well."
CHUCK TODD:
And one thing I would say, if labor unions are getting stronger, I wouldn't assume one party has the advantage on this one because we know in the particularly blue collar labor unions, they've been pretty open to President Trump. All right. Nice panel. That's all we have for today. I appreciate it. Thank you for watching. We're going to be back next week because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press. Meet the Press Reports is on Peacock. We got Meet the Press every day of the week. But we'll see you next Sunday.