KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: rising threats.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
I think the bigger problem is the enemy from within.
KRISTEN WELKER:
With just two weeks to Election Day, former President Trump refuses to commit to a peaceful transfer of power and ramps up the rhetoric against his political opponents.
VICE PRES. KAMALA HARRIS:
A second Trump term would be a huge risk for America and dangerous.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Plus: breaking from Biden?
VICE PRES. KAMALA HARRIS:
My presidency will not be a continuation of Joe Biden’s presidency.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Vice President Harris walks a fine line of charting her own path but not fully distancing herself from President Biden.
VICE PRES. KAMALA HARRIS :
Vice presidents are not critical of their presidents.
KRISTEN WELKER:
My guests this morning: Democratic Governor Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania and Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina. And: game changers. With millions of fans and billions of dollars, women’s sports are breaking records.
MEGAN RAPINOE:
I feel like we just came to the end of all the excuses of why nobody likes women's sports, and it turns out everybody watches women's sports.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Our “Meet the Moment” conversation with sports icons Megan Rapinoe and Sue Bird.
SUE BIRD:
Don't you want to look like a genius? Invest now, get on board now, help this grow now.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Washington Managing Editor Carol Lee; Laura Leslie, Capitol Bureau Chief for WRAL-TV in Raleigh, North Carolina; Ashley Etienne, former Communications Director to Vice President Harris; and Republican Strategist Brendan Buck. Welcome to Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. With just 16 days until Election Day, the candidates’ closing arguments are starting to take shape. Vice President Harris, who launched her campaign vowing to return joy to politics, is now questioning former President Trump's fitness for office and casting him as a threat to democracy. Former President Trump is intensifying his attacks against his political opponents and coarsening his language in what remains a razor tight race.
[START TAPE]
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
You have to tell Kamala Harris that you've had enough, that you just can't take it anymore. We can't stand you. You're a [beep] vice president.
VICE PRES. KAMALA HARRIS:
He has no plan for how he would address the needs of the American people. He is only focused on himself and now he's ducking debates and canceling interviews because of exhaustion.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Polling has consistently found that President Biden is a drag on Harris's candidacy and voters are eager for a new direction. And this morning, NBC News has learned that with just two weeks left in the campaign, there currently are no plans for Harris to appear on the trail with Biden before Election Day. The vice president is trying to put space between herself and her boss, while she continues to be pressed on what exactly she would do differently.
[START TAPE]
VICE PRES. KAMALA HARRIS:
My presidency will not be a continuation of Joe Biden's presidency, and like every new president that comes into office, I will bring my life experiences, my professional experiences and fresh and new ideas. I represent a new generation of leadership.
PETER ALEXANDER:
President Biden said this week that every President has to cut their own path. What is one policy that you would have done differently over these last three and a half years than President Biden?
VICE PRES. KAMALA HARRIS:
I mean to be very candid with you, you, even including Mike Pence, vice presidents are not critical of their presidents.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
For his part, former President Trump is doubling down on his dark rhetoric.
[START TAPE]
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
It is the enemy from within and they're very dangerous. They're Marxists and communists and fascists and they're sick. We have China, we have Russia, we have all these countries. If you have a smart president, they can all be handled. The more difficult are, you know, the Pelosis, these people, they're so sick and they're so evil.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
At a townhall of Latino voters on Wednesday, an audience member who identified himself as a Republican pressed Trump on the January 6th attack on The Capitol.
[START TAPE]
RAMIRO GONZALEZ:
I want to give you the opportunity to try to win back my vote. What happened during January 6, and the fact that, you know, you waited so long to take action while your supporters were attacking the Capitol.
DONALD Trump:
They didn't come because of me. They came because of the election. They thought the election was a rigged election, and that's why they came. Some of those people went down to the Capitol, I said, peacefully and patriotically. Nothing done wrong at all. That was a day of love, from the standpoint of the millions, it's like hundreds of 1000s. It could have been the largest group I've ever spoken before.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Former President Obama is making his closing arguments, as early voting gets underway. He campaigned for Harris this weekend in Arizona and Nevada, with a message to disaffected Republicans.
[START TAPE]
FMR. PRES. BARACK OBAMA:
Being here in Tucson, I'm thinking about my friend John McCain. I mean, one of the most disturbing things about this election and, and Donald Trump's rise in politics is how we seem to have set aside the values that people like a John McCain stood for.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Now Mr. Obama will be in Michigan and Wisconsin on Tuesday, before making his first appearance with Harris in Georgia on Thursday. Former First Lady Michelle Obama will join Harris on the trail for the first time on Saturday in Michigan. Early in-person voting began Saturday in Detroit and both former President Trump and Vice President Harris campaigned in Michigan this weekend. I'm joined now by National Political Correspondent Steve Kornacki for more on where the race stands. Steve, I know you are looking at the battleground states today.
STEVE KORNACKI:
Yeah, Kristen. And looking at the one you just mentioned, Michigan. Look, this is our running average of the polling averages in the battleground states. What – they're all close, but what's the closest right now? Look at that, Michigan the average there. Harris by one tenth of one point. Really doesn't get closer than that. So let's dive into Michigan, what we're going to be looking at in the home stretch and on election night. And the key thing with Michigan of course, go back to the last election. You just heard from Barack Obama there. Before Donald Trump came on the scene, Barack Obama and the Democrats won Michigan handily. Trump of course flipped it barely in 2016, and then it moved a little bit back to the Democrats in 2020. But the key is, between 2012 and 2020, the Trump era, the state as a whole got a lot less Democratic. So keeping that in mind, we've split it into three categories here. Take a look. One way to think about it, one is despite the state getting less Democratic, there are nine counties that got more Democratic in the Trump era. Look at this, from 2012 Barack Obama won this collection of counties by six. By 2020, it was a 14 point Biden blowout. There's only nine of them, but they are one third of the state. Each one of these has a higher share of white voters with college degrees than the statewide average. We talk about that a lot as the core Democratic base these days. You see it in these counties you've got highlighted here. Next here, these are places where Trump made gains between 2012, 2016, and where he held those gains in 2020. And you do see geographically it's a fair amount of the state. But population-wise, this is only 15% of the state. Some of the movement in some of these counties, that isn't that significant. But in others, talk about, like Genesee County where Flint is, Democrats were winning by 30% when Obama was the candidate. Now the Democratic margin down to like 10%. Can Trump squeeze more out of this population-wise relatively small share of the state? And then this is half the state in terms of where the vote is. These are places where Trump made gains, sometimes big gains in '16, then lost ground in 2020. This, I think, is where the state's going to be won or lost. Look at, like, Saginaw County here, where the city of Saginaw is. This is sort of a core, you know, swing county, but we're going to talk a lot about that on election night. You've got just outside Detroit, Macomb County. You know, the old blue collar big suburbs of Detroit. Obama, Obama won them, Trump won them by double digits in 2016, then gave back ground in 2020. That's a key one. And then the city of Detroit itself in Wayne County, the biggest in the state. Within Wayne County, we're going to be looking at, you know, the city of Detroit and the city of Dearborn. In Detroit, Democrats worried about Black voter support, Black male voter support for Biden. You’re going to see Detroit will be a measure of that, and Dearborn, a large Muslim population. We're going to be looking on election night, is that Israel-Palestine situation affecting the vote there, Kristen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, could potentially loom large over everything. Steve Kornacki, fascinating as always. Thank you.
STEVE KORNACKI:
Thanks.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And joining me now is Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina. Senator Graham, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Thank you. Thank you very much.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Thanks for being here in person.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yes, ma'am.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I want to start by talking about former President Trump's rhetoric in these closing days of the campaign. He's been intensifying his attacks against his opponents. Take a listen to a little bit of what he's had to say.
[START TAPE]
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
It is the enemy from within, and they're very dangerous. We have China, we have Russia, we have all these countries. If you have a smart president, they can all be handled. The more difficult are, you know, the Pelosis. These people, they're so sick and they're so evil.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, the enemy from within. Is that a winning closing message for the former president?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Well, we do have enemies within. We've got Afghan nationals going to attack us on Election Day. But as to the Democratic agenda, I think it will change America fundamentally, that they want to pack the court, they want to go to 13-9, they want to eliminate the Electoral College. You know, they want to make D.C. and Puerto Rico states. So yeah, I think their agenda's really radical. But when you talk about rhetoric, you’ve got to remember, they tried to blow his head off. There's one candidate in this race who's been shot at and hit in the ear, and we're lucky they didn't blow his head off. And another guy tried to kill him the next week. So I'm not overly impressed about the rhetoric game here.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But just to be clear, first of all, you're talking about the Afghan national who was radicalized after he got here.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah, that’s an enemy within.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But he's talking – he’s talking about the Democrats. You say, "They.”
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah, he's talking about the agenda.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Who are you talking about when you say, "They," Senator?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I'm talking about the Democratic agenda that they’re going to push –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Because you know that those are still under investigation.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
– the Democratic agenda they're going to push for this country turns our country upside down. It fundamentally changes who we are as a nation, and we're going to stop it. We’re going to stop it at the ballot box.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But, Senator, is that type of rhetoric the way to win over undecided, disaffected Republicans?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
We're winning, and going to win, not because of what Donald Trump's saying, but because of what they've done for four years. You know why Donald Trump is going to win this election? Seventy percent of the people think we're going in the wrong direction. And when Vice President Harris is asked, "What would you do different?" She says, "Nothing comes to mind." The American people are not going to tolerate four more years of affordability crisis, our world on fire, a broken border, energy dependence. Trump's going to win because they have failed the American people. They're trying to disqualify him. Have you heard lately, "Let me tell you why you should vote for me, because I'm going to make your life better?" No, it's all about Trump. They got no other game to play.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me tell you what retired four-star General Mark Milley, someone who you have praised in the past, has had to say about Donald Trump. Of course, he's Donald Trump's former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. He told Bob Woodward in a new book, quote, "No one has ever been as dangerous to this country as Donald Trump. Now I realize he's a total fascist. A fascist to the core." Why shouldn't voters trust Donald Trump's top general on this, Senator?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
He has a right to his opinion. But this is the man who oversaw 20 years of – years of training of the Afghan-Iraqi Army that folded like a cheap suit. I like General Milley, but I disagree with him. You know what I fear? I fear four more years of Biden-Harris policy. I fear holding Israel back so they can't win the war they have to win to survive. I fear four more years of holding Ukraine back, four more years of broken borders, four more years of not drilling for oil and gas, four more years of high food prices. The threat to the world is the policies of this administration. To General Milley, you have a right to your opinion, but I don't fear Donald Trump. I fear what's going on in the world today. If you want the world to stay on fire, vote for her. If you want to keep paying high prices for everything it costs to live, vote for her.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But Senator, you've known General Milley for years. You've said –
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah, I think he’s wrong.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– you have deep admiration and total confidence –
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I think – I think he’s wrong.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– John Kelly, his former chief of staff, has said that --
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
No, I – I think they’re wrong.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– has said that former President Trump was telling him to go after his opponents repeatedly –
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I think they're wrong.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Here he was –
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I know Trump very well. I think they’re wrong.
KRISTEN WELKER:
“He was always telling me that we need to use the FBI and IRS to go after people. It was constant and obsessive.”
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
You know, these are Democratic talking points. I think they're wrong.
KRISTEN WELKER:
No, no. He's the former chief of staff.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I think they're wrong. I think they're totally wrong. It was Joe Biden who got us out of Afghanistan that led to the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
KRISTEN WELKER:
They both –
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
It was Kamala Harris, the border czar, that opened up our border to 10 million illegal immigrants running wild, women getting raped and killed, terrorists residing in our backyard. It was their decision to stop energy production, making us more energy independent. It was their decision to abandon Israel at their time of need when it came to weapons.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But, Senator, the U.S. is making more energy than at any point –
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
So, no, I think these generals are wrong.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But they – But they worked for Donald Trump. These are –
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
You know what? I know, but –
KRISTEN WELKER:
They worked for former President Trump.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Well, that’s – that’s great.
KRISTEN WELKER:
These are former Trump administration officials.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
To every Republican supporting her, what the hell are you doing? You're supporting the most radical nominee in the history of American politics. The Green New Deal. Medicare for All. She was the last person in the room before Biden decided to withdraw from Afghanistan. She was the border czar. She cast a tie-breaking vote for the Inflation Reduction Act that gives you high prices. What are you doing? You're trying to convince me that Donald Trump's rhetoric is the danger to this country? The danger to this country is the policies of Biden and Harris. Her fingerprints are all over this disaster.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator –
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
And I can't take four more years of this crap.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
When you support her, you're supporting four more years of garbage policy.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, we got a lot more to get through, so let me keep moving.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
So, what the hell are you doing as a Republican, blessing this stuff?
KRISTEN WELKER:
I want to ask you about January 6, which did come up at a town hall this week. That’s why I want to ask you about it. A voter said he - Trump had lost his vote. He asked Trump, "Win back my vote." Trump called it a “day of love.” Senator, you were there for January 6. Lawmakers running for their lives. More than 140 law enforcement officials injured that day. Some were beaten with baseball bats and flagpoles. Is that what you consider a day of love, Senator?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Most people didn't enter the Capitol. The ones who did need to be punished. But most people came up there thought the election was stolen. At the end of the day, the people who broke into the Capitol being punished, I support that. But here we are, 16 days from the election and you haven't asked me one question about how Kamala Harris is going to get America on the right track –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well I'm going to talk to Josh Shapiro about that.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
– because she has no plan.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I’m going to talk to Josh Shapiro about that.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Well, no, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But you're here to talk about Donald Trump.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
But you’re trying - all the questions have been about Donald Trump's rhetoric. They haven't been about how do we make America safe and prosperous again. They have no plan. President Trump does.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Bu, Senator, to a day of love - we're going to get to foreign policy. But I just want to -
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I heard exactly what you heard.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– a day of love. Do you agree with that? Do you agree with a day of love?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Most people there didn't attack the Capitol. They came out of love of the country. The people who did attack the Capitol, you know, they're in jail. That's where they need to be.
KRISTEN WELKER:
A hundred and sixty people have pleaded guilty for their actions that day.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Why is Trump doing so well?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you about the Middle East.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Because people have lost hope in her changing their lives.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you about the Middle East.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
And they think President Trump's the best chance to get back on track. That's why he's going to win.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator - All right. Let me ask you about the Middle East and the development –
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Okay. Great.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– significant this week. Of course, Israel announced that it did kill the leader of Hamas, Yahya Sinwar. President Biden on Friday said, "This is an opportunity to end the war." Do you agree with him? Is there a window here to end the war?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
There's a window here not only to end the fighting, but to replace Hamas forever. And the way you do that is you have normalization between Saudi Arabia and Israel. With the death of Sinwar, the door is now open to not only find a way to get Israel to turn over Gaza and eventually Lebanon, but to have it replaced by an Arab coalition offering a better life to the Palestinians. I've never been more hopeful that normalization between Saudi Arabia and Israel is possible. I've been working with the Biden administration for a year and a half. I think we're very close.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Wow. Very quickly, are you anticipating there will be a counterattack by Israel against Iran soon, Senator?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yes.
KRISTEN WELKER:
How soon?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Very.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Very soon. Within a matter of hours, days?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I don’t have any direct knowledge, but I know they're serious about hitting back. I think it will be soon. I think it will be a hard hit. But again, the more you can diminish Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas, the better for the region. I think a normalization deal between Saudi Arabia and Israel, which is the key, is more possible than ever.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Senator Lindsey Graham –
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– always great to see you. Thank you for being here.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, Democratic Governor Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. And joining me now is Democratic governor of Pennsylvania, Josh Shapiro. Governor Shapiro, welcome to Meet the Press.
GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO:
Good morning. It's great to be with you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It is so great to have you. Well, let's start off: our latest NBC News poll shows that more voters are concerned that Vice President Harris will continue Joe Biden's approach than Donald Trump will continue his approach from his first term. My colleague, Peter Alexander, asked the vice president if she would have done anything differently than President Biden. Take a look at that exchange.
[START TAPE]
VICE PRES. KAMALA HARRIS:
Going forward, there is no question. And I bring my own experiences and my own life experiences --
PETER ALEXANDER:
Is there a policy that stands out to you in particular either --
KAMALA HARRIS:
Sure, I mean, my approach to what we need to do around Medicare covering home health care borne out of my experiences of taking care of my mother. My priority on housing, one, because I know what it means, affordable housing, the ability to buy a home.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Governor, given how unpopular polls show President Biden is, has Vice President Harris done enough to distance herself from President Biden?
GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO:
You know, Kristen, I think what is clear is this is a race not between Kamala Harris and Joe Biden, but between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump. And on that there are clear contrasts. Kamala Harris wants to cut taxes for the middle class and small businesses. Donald Trump's tariffs and his economic policies would raise costs for middle class families. I think Kamala Harris has a strong and competent approach to foreign policy to try and calm tensions overseas. Donald Trump just wants to throw a grenade in everything and create more chaos and more suffering across the globe. I think you have a clear contrast on freedom between those two candidates. Kamala Harris wants to restore Roe, Donald Trump bragged about how he's ripped away the freedom from millions of women across this country. So, listen, I think you have a clear contrast between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump. And voters are going to the polls, literally right now all across America, focusing on that choice, not a choice between Kamala Harris and Joe Biden.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I understand what you're saying, Governor, but polls do show that more Americans feel as though President Biden's policies have hurt them rather than helped them. So, can you name one key policy difference between Vice President Harris and President Biden? How would her administration look different?
GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO:
You know, I've been really encouraged by the amount of energy that Kamala Harris – Vice President Harris – has put into focusing on how she will cut taxes for small businesses. The focus on childcare, tax credit expansion. That's something I've done here in Pennsylvania. We've seen that work to ease the burden on families. I think a focus on those kinds of things is particularly important. And those are the kinds of things I think Kamala Harris has brought specifically to this race.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Those aren’t necessarily differences, though. They're an expansion or a tweak to some extent to what's been done. Can you name one policy difference?
GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO:
Well, listen, again, the contrast I am focused on, Kristen, is between her and Donald Trump. And on that I think it is clearly different. I don't want to go back to Donald Trump when he was in charge of this country. Remember the record. I know there's still some people that have maybe a little brain fog – they don't remember what it was like. Under Donald Trump you had more chaos, you had less jobs and you had a whole lot less freedom. I don't think we want to go back to a time of chaos. I want a stable, strong leader. And that's Kamala Harris.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Governor, I don't have to tell you this: the polls are basically deadlocked in your state, in Pennsylvania. They have been that way for weeks. There are a myriad of different reasons for why that is. But Senator John Fetterman said that one of the factors is the assassination attempt against former President Trump that took place in Pennsylvania. Take a look at what he had to say.
[START TAPE]
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:
Trump has created a special kind of a hold – and he's remade the party. And he has a special kind of place in Pennsylvania. And I think that only deepened after that first assassination attempt.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you agree with that assessment, Governor?
GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO:
Well, I think if past is prologue, we're set for another close race here in Pennsylvania. Let me explain. 2016, the race was decided by 44,000 votes. Donald Trump won here in Pennsylvania. In 2020, the race was settled by 80,000 votes. Joe Biden won. In both instances, it came down to a point or less. So the fact that you have polls showing that it's, you know, a jump ball, statistical dead heat, maybe Kamala Harris is up a point or so. That is not a shock. We are close – we are used to close elections here in Pennsylvania. And, you know, I choose not to worry about that. I choose to work right through it. We understand that this election likely will come down to tens of thousands of votes. It's why I am all over Pennsylvania doing everything I can for the vice president. Why I'm on this “Blue Wall” bus tour with Governor Gretchen Whitmer, Governor Tony Evers of Michigan and Wisconsin, respectively. We're going to be in State College today after spending a whole bunch of time in Western Pennsylvania yesterday, and before that Michigan and Wisconsin. We understand these races are close. You've got to compete for every vote. And while we're a big state, we're still a retail state. You’ve got to show up. And I'm encouraged by the fact that the vice president has been here so much and is committed to coming back here many times before Election Day.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Governor, let's talk about the Middle East. You just heard me talking about that with Senator Graham. Vice President Harris has struggled to shore up support from young voters, from progressives who want to see an immediate end to the war in Gaza. In the wake of the death of Yahya Sinwar, do you think that if there is a cease-fire deal that's brokered, that could have an impact. And if there isn't a cease-fire deal that is brokered, could that hurt Harris with those key groups I just mentioned?
GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO:
Look, obviously, the situation in the Middle East is dire. And obviously it's having an impact on our politics here at home. First, let's acknowledge that Sinwar was a bad man with blood on his hands. He was a terrorist who killed people in Israel, who killed people throughout the region, who killed Americans. He was the mastermind behind October 7th that left 1,200 dead, about 250 in captivity, including Americans, women brutally, sexually assaulted and violated by Hamas, the terrorist group that Sinwar led. I am glad he is dead. It is my hope that that can bring some modicum of peace to the families, the victims of those on October 7th. It's also my hope that this can perhaps create the opportunity for a pause in the fighting, that the hostages can come home, and that we can have a cease-fire, and immediately look to creating stability in the Middle East, where Gaza can be rebuilt. And it would be my hope that we could have meaningful negotiations with nations all throughout the Middle East that would create the opportunity to construct a two-state solution. So I am hopeful that with this terrorist's death that we can hopefully create some break in the action, a return of these hostages and creating some stability in the region.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Governor, let me ask you about a development we learned about overnight. Elon Musk says he will be giving away a million dollars every day to random voters who signed his super PAC’s petition. You are a former attorney general. Is this legal?
GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO:
I think there are real questions with how he is spending money in this race, how the dark money is flowing, not just into Pennsylvania, but apparently now into the pockets of Pennsylvanians. That is deeply concerning. Look, Musk obviously has a right to be able to express his views. He's made it very, very clear that he supports Donald Trump. I don’t – obviously, we have a difference of opinion. I don't deny him that right. But when you start flowing this kind of money into politics, I think it raises serious questions that folks may want to take a look at.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So you think it might not be legal? Yes or no.
GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO:
I think it's something that law enforcement could take a look at. I'm not the attorney general anymore of Pennsylvania. I'm the governor, but it does raise some serious questions.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Well, I have to end the interview by saying from one Pennsylvanian to another, "Go Birds." We'll be watching the game today.
GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO:
Go Birds. All right, Kristen, thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Governor Shapiro, thank you so much for joining the program. We really appreciate it. And when we come back, the closing arguments on the campaign trail. Donald Trump warns of the “enemy within” as Vice President Harris calls him unstable. The panel is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is here: NBC News managing Washington editor Carol Lee; Ashley Etienne, former communications director for Vice President Harris; Laura Leslie, Capitol bureau chief at WRAL-TV in Raleigh, North Carolina; and Brendan Buck, former advisor to House speakers Ryan and Boehner. Thanks to all of you for being here. Oh my goodness. Sixteen days, Carol Lee. I can't believe it. We are seeing these closing arguments take shape. We've been talking about them throughout the morning, the dark rhetoric coming from Trump. Kamala Harris seems to be abandoning, to some extent, her message of joy. What is the strategy inside the Harris campaign in these closing days?
CAROL LEE:
Well, the strategy is, first, the way to think about this according to campaign officials is that you have two weeks. In the next few days, the effort is to focus on the final stages of their persuasion campaign. So a lot of leaning into and criticizing former President Trump. That's something that the campaign officials say that they will continue to do. They'll continue to seize on his comments every day and amplify them through Election Day. But they're going to shift starting on Thursday with this rally that Vice President Harris is having with former President Obama. And that is really, according to campaign officials, when they kick into the sprint to the end, the get-out-the-vote effort, and where she'll really finetune her closing argument, which will include former President Trump and criticizing him but also what she has to offer, what her vision is. A lot of, you know, "Do you want to go back?" – that she is the candidate of the future, and a little less of her biography. But we're really going to see her finetune that closer to maybe like four or five days from now.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It's just fascinating — Ashley, pick up on that point — because that speaks to the big looming question that I was just speaking about with Governor Shapiro, which is: What is a Harris administration going to look like as compared to a Biden administration? She has answered this question. She's starting to fill in the gaps a little bit more with each answer. But has she gone far enough? What's your assessment? What are your sources telling you?
ASHLEY ETIENNE:
Well, my sources are telling me a little bit of what Carol is saying here. But I wrote an op-ed for the New York Times recently, and I made this point and recommendation to the vice president, that she needs to lean into her “why.” Why is she the right leader for this moment, and why does it matter to the American voters? And I think that is her greatest contrast with Donald Trump. What I know about her in those rooms: she's compassionate. She sees people. She has a heart for their circumstances, their hopes and their dreams. And, again, that's her greatest contrast with Donald Trump and that's what makes her the leader for this moment. So in her closing argument, I anticipate that she will lean into this question of why is she the right leader, to draw that contrast, but also get back to optimism, get back to your vision for the nation. Remind this country of what makes us exceptional. And it's not Donald Trump and his politics of division.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, and speaking of a contrast, Donald Trump is certainly creating one, Brendan, with his rhetoric: "enemy from within," calling January 6 "a beautiful day," all the things I was just talking to Senator Graham about. And I put kind of the same question to you that I put to him, which is: Is this a way that he can win over that very small sliver of undecided voters? How does that help him, or is this just about getting out the base?
BRENDAN BUCK:
Yeah. I mean, it's not much of a closing argument. It's just sort of the rantings of a disturbed man. But it doesn't really matter a ton, I don't think. Donald Trump - The persuasion window for Donald Trump has closed. Whether you like him, loathe him, or you're in the middle, you have an opinion on Donald Trump. I think the problem for the Harris campaign is, once again, we are being sucked into the vortex of Donald Trump. It's not about anything substantive, and she is now being forced to respond to whatever bizarre thing he did that day. And the real challenge in the stretch - the home stretch of a campaign is, how do you get attention? How do you get someone to hear your message? And, once again, we're following around the bouncing ball of Donald Trump, and that's just really hard for her to break through. It almost doesn't matter what he says; it's just that we're talking about him and not this message that she needs to deliver.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. and, Laura, so glad that you're here from North –
LAURA LESLIE:
Thanks.
KRISTEN WELKER:
--Carolina. This all comes against the backdrop: it's on already. People are voting. They are voting in North Carolina. Of course, there were concerns about whether folks would be able to cast their ballots in the wake of Hurricane Helene. But record numbers so far.
LAURA LESLIE:
Absolutely. We had a record turnout across the state on Thursday. I was there on the ground talking to voters. The people who were there were not your normal first-day voters. These are people – Because I always ask that. They said, "No, we don't usually come the first day, but we felt like it this year.”
KRISTEN WELKER:
Wow.
LAURA LESLIE:
“We thought it was important.” But I will say, the election officials and state lawmakers have really bent over backwards to make sure that all these people can cast their ballots even in the quarter of the state, 25 counties, that were impacted by Helene. They have actually set it up so that voters from that area can get their mail-in ballots and then can hand deliver those ballots to any early voting site in the entire state. And they will be chain-of-custody hand delivered back to that person's county. So that’s pretty - They’re going beyond – above and beyond.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It's extraordinary, the steps that have been taken to make sure –
LAURA LESLIE:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– that people can cast their ballots. And, Carol, of course, this all comes - you do have some new reporting about the role that President Biden is going to play in these closing days.
CAROL LEE:
Yeah, that's right. And one campaign official described it as "tailored," which is a very gentle way of saying you should not expect to see President Biden out there front and center on the campaign trail. We're told that there are no current plans for President Biden to appear with Vice President Harris on the campaign trail between now and Election Day. And, look, there's a number of reasons for that. It really underscores his unpopularity and the concerns within the campaign that locking arms with President Biden really could undermine her message, that she's going to be her own president if she were to win and not a second Biden term.
BRENDAN BUCK:
And can I just say?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Please.
BRENDAN BUCK:
It was remarkable that Josh Shapiro was here as a surrogate for the campaign and they still can't come up with an answer to what she would do differently than the president. I mean, by a two-to-one margin, people think the country is headed in the wrong direction, and they obviously know that she flubbed the answer when she couldn't think of anything. We're days — I don't know — a week later, and they still haven't figured out a good answer for what she's going to do different other than, "I'm going to continue expanding Medicare."
ASHLEY ETIENNE:
But I think there's – No, I was going to say I think the governor leaned in on several issues where the vice president would take a different posture and stance, more aggressive stance, than President Biden: from taxes to childcare taxes and benefits, benefits for small businesses. But the one issue that I think that she needs to really lean into, because it affects 48 million people, and this is her thoughts and ideas about how to address the sandwich generation. I happen to be one of those that's caring for my ailing father as well as my daughter. I think that is a very potent message. That is something Biden didn't do anything on, that she rolled out a robust policy agenda on that I think would really have great resonance with everyday voters.
BRENDAN BUCK:
That sounds like a standard-issue policy proposal anybody –
ASHLEY ETIENNE:
It's actually not.
BRENDAN BUCK:
– could have. But it doesn't feel like it's a contrast with the sitting president, who a lot of people have a huge problem with.
ASHLEY ETIENNE:
Well, he has no policy. He's only got concepts. So of course it's always a great contrast –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Laura, Laura –
ASHLEY ETIENNE:
– when you have no –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Laura, let me bring you into this. How are voters in North Carolina responding to this? Are they listening? Is this an issue that they care about, this rhetoric that we're hearing from Harris and from Trump, the dark rhetoric from Trump and the questions that Harris is getting about the differences between her and Biden?
LAURA LESLIE:
I think the high turnout that we've seen already is proof that people really are engaged in this election, they're paying a lot of attention to it. But the thing is, North Carolina's a really hard state. We have not had a presidential outcome outside of the polls' margin of error for 20 years, right? We're always, always tight. And this year, we have Hurricane Helene to throw into that. We also have Lieutenant Governor Mark Robinson, who's the Republican candidate for governor, who's had his own imbroglio, yes, right now. And so the question is how that's going to weigh on the polls, how that might suppress turnout or not.
ASHLEY ETIENNE:
Kristen, can I just say one thing –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yes.
ASHLEY ETIENNE:
– that I'm hearing from the Harris campaign? And what they're seeing right now in early vote, the numbers are off the charts. But what they're seeing is first-time Democratic voters and sporadic Democratic voters that are turning up to early vote, and that is an incredibly encouraging sign for Harris.
LAURA LESLIE:
That's really the key to North Carolina. And I think – the Clinton campaign knew this back in 2016. She was on campus at NC State the night before the election trying to get those voters, those young voters, energized to turn out. And so I think we're going to see more of the Obamas, for example, coming to campuses.
ASHLEY ETIENNE:
Michelle’s great at talking to young voters.
KRISTEN WELKER:
She’s going to be out there. She sure is. Yeah. Final word, Carol?
CAROL LEE:
Yeah, that's exactly right. The Obamas are a huge part of the closing argument, the get-out-the-vote effort. You have Barack Obama with Harris on Thursday. And then you have Michelle Obama, her first appearance on the campaign trail with Vice President Harris, on Saturday. And then, you know, it's a sprint to the end.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All hands on deck from this moment forward. Guys, thank you so much. Fantastic conversation. And when we come back, Vice President Kamala Harris doesn't talk much about the history she would make if she were to become the first female president. We look back 67 years to what Eleanor Roosevelt once told us about breaking that barrier. Our Meet the Press Minute is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. Michelle and Barack Obama are hitting the campaign trail with Vice President Harris this week in Georgia and Michigan, after some Democrats expressed concerns about the former first lady's absence from the trail. This wouldn't be the first time a former first lady reemerged on the political stage with significant influence. Eleanor Roosevelt joined Meet the Press in 1957, having turned to diplomacy after leaving the White House. Following a high-profile visit with the Soviet leader, she had established a natural presence in her own right.
[BEGIN TAPE]
MARQUIS CHILDS:
On this program last week, you were suggested as a possible candidate for president yourself.
ELEANOR ROOSEVELT:
For what?
MARQUIS CHILDS:
For president. For the nomination.
ELEANOR ROOSEVELT:
I am 73 years old. Wake up.
MARQUIS CHILDS:
I didn't make the nomination. Do you think we shall ever have a woman president?
ELEANOR ROOSEVELT:
Yes. Of course we will.
MARQUIS CHILDS:
How soon?
ELEANOR ROOSEVELT:
Oh, I don't know how soon. That depends on how many women do well in offices and how many women win offices and are appointed. You can't tell. But someday it will happen, when you get to the point where you look at people in politics and in positions of political importance as people and not as either women or men.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Just extraordinary to hear from her. When we come back, game changers: 2024 has been a record-breaking year for women's sports. Sports icons Megan Rapinoe and Sue Bird join our “Meet the Moment” conversation, next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. 2024 has marked what might be the biggest year on record for women’s sports in America. From the WNBA finals currently underway – breaking records for viewership – to American women winning more than half of the country’s gold medals at the olympics in Paris. If American women were their own country, they would have placed third in overall medal count. Two trailblazing athletes, Megan Rapinoe and Sue Bird, say the talent and the fans have always been there, but now the rest of the country is finally catching up to what they’ve always known: everyone watches women’s sports. The two sports icons, and fiancees, have a new podcast -- "A Touch More" -- where they and their guests give an insider’s perspective on what’s happening in the world of women’s elite sports. I sat down with Rapinoe and Bird for a “Meet the Moment” conversation about this remarkable moment.
[START TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
So, let's talk about where we are in women's sports. The women's NCAA basketball tournament had more viewers than men's this year. Women made up 50% of Team USA for the first time in Olympic history. Megan, when you think about those numbers, what does that say about where we are as a country?
MEGAN RAPINOE:
Well, you always say this, but everybody's catching up, right? Everybody, everybody knows now what we've known for a long time. Like, when Sue played in the Final Four, her stadium was sold out. And, like, that was already happening then. The U.S. Women's National Team had been winning gold medals for a long time. U.S. women in the Olympics have dominated for a very long time. And now you're seeing the investment match the quality and the ability of the players. You're seeing the investment match the appetite that the fans have and the demand from the fans. The demand from the fans has been there the whole time. Just things haven't been available, whether that's on streaming, or whether that's on TV, or whatever it may be. And I think this moment is like – I feel like we just came to the end of all the excuses of why nobody likes women's sports, and it turns out everybody watches women's sports. Everybody likes it. Everybody's into it. Turns out, oh, we're really good at sports. We're really entertaining. We're actually really amazing off the court. We, we care about our teammates. We care about our community. We care about politics. We care about making the world a better place. And it's an incredibly desirable product for people to watch, for players to play in, for sponsors to sponsor, for people to put on TV. So, it’s like, we always just feel like we've been knowing this is ready. And I feel like everyone else is now ready for that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And I think about other stars like Caitlin Clark, Angel Reese, these women who are now, like the two of you --
MEGAN RAPINOE:
Superstars.
SUE BIRD:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– in the spotlight and superstars --
MEGAN RAPINOE:
Yeah. Yeah, superstars.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– and just at the top of their game. I wonder what you would say to them, what you have said to them, about how to both be focused on your sport and your craft, but also manage all of that pressure, which is a lot.
SUE BIRD:
Yeah. It’s, it's really fun, rewarding, and also interesting to watch these younger athletes step into their professional careers. Obviously, Caitlin and Angel are two great examples. What I see immediately -- and I think some of this has to do with NIL in college, right? Like, so much earlier, these athletes are thinking about themselves as businesses, as brands. And that’s – it's amazing because they're carrying that with them to the WNBA. And so, everything's just bigger. They just seem so much more self-aware in that way, in a business sense, than I ever was at that age, I would say that you ever were, because --
MEGAN RAPINOE:
Yeah.
SUE BIRD:
– that just wasn't our worlds, right? But now they're in that world. And so, my only advice is usually just to make sure they keep basketball the main thing. Because at the end of the day, that is your vehicle. It's your vehicle to -- Angel Reese has a podcast. It's her vehicle to be a podcaster, right? Whatever Caitlin ends up doing, it's the vehicle to get you to that point. So you always want to make sure that part doesn’t fall off.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, and of course sports is a business, as well. Last year, Deloitte forecasted that 2024 would be the first year that revenue for women's elite sports would surpass a billion dollars. But where do you put it in the arc of what you are hoping to accomplish? Does more need to be done? And what more needs to be done?
SUE BIRD:
Megan and I talk about this all the time, is a lot of times we're not looked at based on our potential, right? Whether it's a young athlete, somebody who has already accomplished a lot, it's never like, "Ooh, let me invest in this and see what happens in five to ten years because I see something." It's always, "Okay, what have you done, and do I – do you deserve to be paid now based on what you did do?" But never looking to the future. I would challenge corporate sponsorships, so companies, businesses, TV networks, to start looking at us based on our potential. What they think is going to happen, not, "Well, let's wait and see in a couple years to see if this is real."
KRISTEN WELKER:
What is your message if you could speak to lawmakers, to people who have the ability to change things not just in sports, but across all industries? What is the message to them?
MEGAN RAPINOE:
I think in so many ways - I would love for people to just believe in it, and that would be reflected in the policies that they craft up. But that’s obviously not the case, and it’s been entrenched. So like, people don't really think about it, but public investment in men's teams is in, at this point, likely the hundreds of billions. We're talking stadiums, practice facilities, investment around, like, building, you know, the kind of like restaurants and the scene around the stadiums. Like, a lot of that is done with public money. Show me the area where billions of dollars have invested – been invested into women's sports, women, young girls, education, any of that. So, like, I think from a holistic perspective, there's so much we need to do.
SUE BIRD:
You know, we've already stated all the facts, right? The underinvestment, and yet here we still are. Again, whether it's people trying to invest or lawmakers and be like, "Don't you want to look like a genius? Like this is how you can look like – invest now, get on board now, help this grow now.”
KRISTEN WELKER:
You've both been so celebrated. And then recently, your number was retired by the Seattle Reign. And you have a street named after you in Seattle. Sue, what are those moments like?
SUE BIRD:
So, those are powerful. They're powerful. They're meaningful. I think where I've landed with it is, you know, you play the game, maybe you set some records, you win some championships. And, yes, the memories always stay. But there's always another athlete that comes and, you know, breaks one of your records or, you know, maybe wins more gold medals. And then you start to realize, "Okay, so, what's this other impact that I've had?" And I think when you're, you’re honored in a way of a jersey retirement, in the case for me with the street being named after me, those last forever. And that really, I think, is an indicator of your legacy. And more than that, it's a “see it, be it” moment for a young girl out there, right? We've actually changed the world in that way, because I didn't have athletes that had jerseys retired or streets named after them to be like, "I want to try to do that one day." And now there's a younger generation that can see us and see what we've achieved, and try to do that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You use that word “legacy,” which is so powerful. Megan, what do you think your legacy is and will be?
MEGAN RAPINOE:
Oh, that's a question I think for other people to answer, but I think part of the legacy is, you know, growing our individual teams, growing the sport, to think about where the sport is now for a Trinity Rodman versus where it was for me when I was growing -- is massively different. And there's, and there’s a million people that are involved in that. But to have our little fingerprints on it in some way, I think, when I think about legacy I think of, you know, seeing more, like, openly gay people in the stands, and families, and, like, seeing Black Lives Matter flags in the stands, and, like, seeing groundbreaking CBAs, and seeing equal pay, like, seeing the team continue to win, which has always been the legacy, which is the legacy that I picked up from other people. Now these players get to just take it to a whole new level and, you know, blow us out of the water. And I feel like that's exciting for us and, like, meaningful for us of, like, we built something that was sturdy to stand on, and now they're flying.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Our thanks to Megan Rapinoe and Sue Bird for that fantastic conversation. To see my full “Meet the Moment” interview with them, go to MeetthePress.com. That is all for today, thank you so much for watching. We'll be back next week because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.